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  • B&W Printing tip with inkjet

    Not sure if this will work with other printers but I have been struggling with the dreaded colour cast on my b&w prints on the b1100. A light blue/green in my case.
    Doing lots of settings and faffing about wasting loads of ink and paper I can't believe what seems to have fixed it
    Im using third party inks which Ive never had a problem with and epson glossy 225gm paper. By telling the printer you have matt photo paper, guess what? no colour cast
    I can only presume that the printer does not use as much ink on matt so its not putting as much colour onto the paper, just a hunch.

    cheers
    Ash.
    http://www.ftmphotography.co.uk

  • #2
    Re: B&W Printing tip with inkjet

    Originally posted by ash View Post
    Not sure if this will work with other printers but I have been struggling with the dreaded colour cast on my b&w prints on the b1100. A light blue/green in my case.
    Doing lots of settings and faffing about wasting loads of ink and paper I can't believe what seems to have fixed it
    Im using third party inks which Ive never had a problem with and epson glossy 225gm paper. By telling the printer you have matt photo paper, guess what? no colour cast
    I can only presume that the printer does not use as much ink on matt so its not putting as much colour onto the paper, just a hunch.

    cheers
    Ash.
    Quite the opposite it uses more ink on matte setting, as matte paper absorbs more ink.
    The real answer to B/W prints is to have a printer designed for it, my Epson R2880 has black, light black & light light black and a special ink cartridge for matte paper, bit of a nuisance really it has to be changed over for matte paper and changed back again for gloss or luster, which means it wastes ink flushing ink through each time a change is made. So I don't print much matte now, if I do i use my regular ink setup, its a bit of a compromise but none the less Permajet recommend this method.
    The printer also has an advanced B/W setting so that its possible to print cool, natural, warm, & sepia, or make your own B/W settings.

    Patrick

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    • #3
      Re: B&W Printing tip with inkjet

      Hi Patrick, I think your missing the point of my post, I was not claiming to be the no it all of b&w printing but just letting other users no my findings.
      You have basically said my assumption is wrong but not gave the answer why Im now not getting the colour cast.
      Lovely if you can afford a nice printer like an r2880, Im happy for you
      http://www.ftmphotography.co.uk

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: B&W Printing tip with inkjet

        Originally posted by ash View Post
        Hi Patrick, I think your missing the point of my post, I was not claiming to be the no it all of b&w printing but just letting other users no my findings.
        You have basically said my assumption is wrong but not gave the answer why Im now not getting the colour cast.
        Lovely if you can afford a nice printer like an r2880, Im happy for you
        I didn't miss your point, I fully understand what you were trying to say. Just pointing out at the end of the day without the right printer its all a compromise. As a matter of interest have you viewed your results in different lights, daylight compared with tungsten, fluorescent or these energy saving lights, I think you will possibly find big differences.
        I spent a lot of ink & paper on this problem for years, get it right in one light look at it in another and disappointment.
        I couldn't afford the R2880 printer when my R2400 went wrong, my wife came to my rescue, I will be paying her back the money over the next few months to a year.
        I am of pensionable age but am compelled to carry on working, I don't get holidays abroad anymore, flashy cars (I own 7 year old Jazz with 160,000 on the clock). Its all about where and how an individual person chooses to spend what little money is at their disposal. I have made my choice rightly or wrongly.

        Patrick

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: B&W Printing tip with inkjet

          Originally posted by ash View Post
          Not sure if this will work with other printers but I have been struggling with the dreaded colour cast on my b&w prints on the b1100. A light blue/green in my case.

          cheers
          Ash.
          I'll try your solution next time I do some B and W but the answer I use is to use Quadtone RIP. It requires a TIFF format file but prints only using black ink, in the case of my Epson it uses both Matt and Photo ink cartridges.

          May be worth a look.

          http://www.quadtonerip.com/html/QTRoverview.html

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: B&W Printing tip with inkjet

            Seems to look good in any light.
            Ash.
            http://www.ftmphotography.co.uk

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: B&W Printing tip with inkjet

              This is probably just luck, Ash.

              There would probably be much less of a cast on Epson papers if you used Epson original inks.

              Even when using original inks, but especially so when using third party inks, you should use custom profiles (use a print calibrator) to get the best and most accurate colours from your ink and paper combinations. Getting the most accurate colours also means achieving the most neutral greys as the colour inks build the grey tones.

              Ian
              Founder/editor
              Digital Photography Now (DPNow.com)
              Twitter: www.twitter.com/ian_burley
              Flickr: www.flickr.com/photos/dpnow/
              Pinterest: www.pinterest.com/ianburley/

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: B&W Printing tip with inkjet

                Originally posted by Ian View Post
                This is probably just luck, Ash.

                There would probably be much less of a cast on Epson papers if you used Epson original inks.

                Even when using original inks, but especially so when using third party inks, you should use custom profiles (use a print calibrator) to get the best and most accurate colours from your ink and paper combinations. Getting the most accurate colours also means achieving the most neutral greys as the colour inks build the grey tones.

                Ian
                Indeed profiles are essential with third party inks and are even desirable though not essential for manufacturers own inks.
                First step is screen profiling I know you agree with that Ian.
                For print profiles the better third party suppliers Permajet, Fotospeed and others, will make free of charge custom profiles for there own papers, using any inks. I had two profiles made when I bought the R2880 with the Permajet Eco flow ink system for Permajets Royal and Distinction paper, the results were spot on.
                I used to have a Spyder screen profiler and print profiler but sold the lot when the club got a Colormunki which the members can borrow.

                Good profiles can save a lot of ink and paper, and tempers I still have the habit of doing a A6 test print though.

                Patrick

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                • #9
                  Re: B&W Printing tip with inkjet

                  Awsome, its on my todo list
                  http://www.ftmphotography.co.uk

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: B&W Printing tip with inkjet

                    Originally posted by Ian View Post
                    Even when using original inks, but especially so when using third party inks, you should use custom profiles (use a print calibrator) to get the best and most accurate colours from your ink and paper combinations.
                    This is so true. I had an age of trouble when trying to print an image with a greyscale gradient when using a profile supplied with the ink I was using. Lots of hair-pulling and wasted prints, and I never did shift the red cast over the greyscale.

                    Recently I had similar prints to do, but I had the good fortune of borrowing a friend's ColorMunki to make my own profile. Result - neutral greyscale, no colour cast, no hair-pulling.

                    Particularly when using non-OEM inks, you should spend some of that money you've saved on either getting custom profiles made or investing in your own profiler.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: B&W Printing tip with inkjet

                      I'm new on these forums, but I know quite a bit about inkjet printing (am a journalist with quite some experience in this area) and I think your problem has two components:

                      Any ink in combination with glossy paper can create colour casts (there's a word for it, but my mind's gone blank and can't remember it -- I just remembered: it's called "bronzing"). Epson, HP, etc have special manufacturing tolerances for blacks so the cast you'll see will stay within almost invisible limits.

                      The only way you can get rid of that cast with any 'non-approved' ink/paper combination is by RIPping --printing in CMYk-- and before you RIP, creating your own colour profile with very low Total Ink Coverage. That might get rid of the problem too, but it's probably even more expensive than buying original inks and papers.
                      Last edited by erikvlie; 22-05-11, 09:07 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: B&W Printing tip with inkjet

                        Originally posted by erikvlie View Post
                        I'm new on these forums, but I know quite a bit about inkjet printing (am a journalist with quite some experience in this area) and I think your problem has two components:

                        Any ink in combination with glossy paper can create colour casts (there's a word for it, but my mind's gone blank and can't remember it -- I just remembered: it's called "bronzing"). Epson, HP, etc have special manufacturing tolerances for blacks so the cast you'll see will stay within almost invisible limits.

                        The only way you can get rid of that cast with any 'non-approved' ink/paper combination is by RIPping --printing in CMYk-- and before you RIP, creating your own colour profile with very low Total Ink Coverage. That might get rid of the problem too, but it's probably even more expensive than buying original inks and papers.
                        OK, let's be careful about this and of course I know English is not your first language A colour cast is not the same as bronzing. Bronzing is usually caused when printing pigmented inks on glossy papers and is a result of light reflection off the pigmented inks at certain angles. The other term you may have been looking for is metamerism, which is where black and greys tones can almost change colour according to the type of illumination under which the print is viewed. Again, this is mainly a weakness of pigment ink printing and this certainly can be helped by good quality ink/paper print profiling.

                        Ian
                        Founder/editor
                        Digital Photography Now (DPNow.com)
                        Twitter: www.twitter.com/ian_burley
                        Flickr: www.flickr.com/photos/dpnow/
                        Pinterest: www.pinterest.com/ianburley/

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: B&W Printing tip with inkjet

                          Of course, you're right Ian. Bronzing is "gloss differential". Metamerism was what I was thinking of. That phenomenon is entirely due to misprofiling and as far as I know has little to do with the ink type, but I could be wrong.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: B&W Printing tip with inkjet

                            Originally posted by erikvlie View Post
                            Of course, you're right Ian. Bronzing is "gloss differential". Metamerism was what I was thinking of. That phenomenon is entirely due to misprofiling and as far as I know has little to do with the ink type, but I could be wrong.
                            Metamerism is far less common with dye-based inks. It can be a big problem with pigmented inks.

                            Ian
                            Founder/editor
                            Digital Photography Now (DPNow.com)
                            Twitter: www.twitter.com/ian_burley
                            Flickr: www.flickr.com/photos/dpnow/
                            Pinterest: www.pinterest.com/ianburley/

                            Comment

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