I recommended Olympus! Have I gone mad?

[StuartR]

I come from a large family and photography, for whatever reason, is starting to become a major hobby with my brothers & sisters. There are three of us now using Canon DSLR kit and yesterday another brother decided to take the plunge and asked the dreaded question - "what should I buy?"

His budget is £600 and he wants a twin-lens kit, preferably with some image stabilisation. The main use of the kit will be to take photographs for his company's website & blog. The camera will spend most of its time in a land-rover going off-road around fruit farms so not exactly an ideal environment for a precision instrument! General shots of the farm, pack-houses, farm workers and close-ups of fruit etc., will be the order of the day.

In the end I got it down to:

Canon 400D + 18-55 & 55-200 (plus battery grip) £599
Nikon D40X + 18-55 & 55-200 VR £605
Olympus E-510 + 14-42 & 40-150 £612 but £100 cash back = £512
Pentax 10D + 18-55 & 50-200 £617

The best price I found for the Canon was 7dayshop and the rest, to my surprise, were Pixmania deals.

Although I wanted to point him in the direction of Canon I found myself strangely drawn to the Olympus kit - especially as the price would enable him to buy UV filters and a decent land-rover friendly bag for his £600 budget. I note that, unlike Canon, the Olympus lenses come with lens-hoods so that saves a few bob as well.

Would anyone like to disagree or agree with my selection and / or final choice?

(I also noted that Pixmania's web site made no mention of the £100 cash-back deal on the Olympus whereas all the other "a-list" suppliers did - I advised him to check this and if not satisfied with the answer to buy from a UK dealer [I believe Pixmania are based in France?] even if it was a little dearer)

[Ian]

Originally Posted by StuartR

I come from a large family and photography, for whatever reason, is starting to become a major hobby with my brothers & sisters. There are three of us now using Canon DSLR kit and yesterday another brother decided to take the plunge and asked the dreaded question - "what should I buy?"

His budget is £600 and he wants a twin-lens kit, preferably with some image stabilisation. The main use of the kit will be to take photographs for his company's website & blog. The camera will spend most of its time in a land-rover going off-road around fruit farms so not exactly an ideal environment for a precision instrument! General shots of the farm, pack-houses, farm workers and close-ups of fruit etc., will be the order of the day.

In the end I got it down to:

Canon 400D + 18-55 & 55-200 (plus battery grip) £599
Nikon D40X + 18-55 & 55-200 VR £605
Olympus E-510 + 14-42 & 40-150 £612 but £100 cash back = £512
Pentax 10D + 18-55 & 50-200 £617

The best price I found for the Canon was 7dayshop and the rest, to my surprise, were Pixmania deals.

Although I wanted to point him in the direction of Canon I found myself strangely drawn to the Olympus kit - especially as the price would enable him to buy UV filters and a decent land-rover friendly bag for his £600 budget. I note that, unlike Canon, the Olympus lenses come with lens-hoods so that saves a few bob as well.

Would anyone like to disagree or agree with my selection and / or final choice?

(I also noted that Pixmania's web site made no mention of the £100 cash-back deal on the Olympus whereas all the other "a-list" suppliers did - I advised him to check this and if not satisfied with the answer to buy from a UK dealer [I believe Pixmania are based in France?] even if it was a little dearer)

I've always wondered why Canon don't supply a lens hood - even the 50mm f/1.4 doesn't come with a hood

You need to check that you're getting the new IS version of the 18-55, of course if going for the Canon option.

Pixmania is based in France but now owned, as I understand, by Dixons Stores Group (DSG) - I can find out if a Pixmania purchase is subject to the UK cashback offer. I know that Olympus honour DSLR warranties internationally.

Ian

[Ian]

Originally Posted by Ian

I've always wondered why Canon don't supply a lens hood - even the 50mm f/1.4 doesn't come with a hood

You need to check that you're getting the new IS version of the 18-55, of course if going for the Canon option.

Pixmania is based in France but now owned, as I understand, by Dixons Stores Group (DSG) - I can find out if a Pixmania purchase is subject to the UK cashback offer. I know that Olympus honour DSLR warranties internationally.

Ian

I've seen the E-510 twin lens kit cheaper at £517, so maybe down to £417 with the cashback, see:

http://dpnow.pricegrabber.co.uk/sear...n%20lens%20kit I don't know anything about eBuyer, so do check first. The typical price before the cashback is around £625.

If you are interested in my opinion, each of these kts has its strengths weaknesses:

The Canon 400D probably has the best AF system, but I find it uncomfortable hold, the 18-55 is probably the least impressive of the standard zooms and there is no IS option for the longer zoom.

The Olympus 510 is the smallest and lightest (the kit lenses are absolutely tiny), the optics are very good, I think it handles very well and the in-body IS works with all Four Thirds compatible lenses, it has Live View, though not via an articulating screen. Only three AF points, the flash system is not as good as Nikon or Canon (only the new E-3 is compatible with the new and improved flash system), no battery grip option.

The Nikon D40x, in my view has the worst user interface of the three. The lenses are good - the 55-200 is exceptionally good, especially in VR mode. Only 3 AF points. Probably the best noise performance of the three. No battery grip option.

Pentax K10D - this is really a camera one league above the others in terms of build quality and features, so it could be the surprise -it has a tough weather sealed body (though the lenses aren't), in-body IS. The standard zoom is good, but I haven't tried the 50-200. It's bigger and heavier than the others. It has a power grip as an option. The AF is a bit clunky compared to the Oly, Nikon or Canon systems that have the more modern in-lens AF motor arrangement. But the AF is fast and accurate.

Just my opinion!

Ian

[Stephen]

As an aside, all my Canon lenses came with a hood, though I remember my 75-300 didn't but I no longer have that.

I'd also agree about the Nikon D40 user interface, it seems they try to make it user friendly for newbies etc., but I did find it confusing when I briefly used a friends Frankly I think when I tried the Canon 400D it was pretty similar

I suppose if your brother only uses it on full auto it won't make a lot of difference though.

[Ian]

Originally Posted by Stephen

As an aside, all my Canon lenses came with a hood, though I remember my 75-300 didn't but I no longer have that.

I'd also agree about the Nikon D40 user interface, it seems they try to make it user friendly for newbies etc., but I did find it confusing when I briefly used a friends Frankly I think when I tried the Canon 400D it was pretty similar

I suppose if your brother only uses it on full auto it won't make a lot of difference though.

I had a hood with my 75-300 EF USM when I bought it 12 years ago, but I can't remember if I had to buy it separately; probably did actually. Same for my 28-80 kit zoom the year previously when I bought my EOS-100.

Ian

[Ian]

Had a word with Olympus; they aren't sure about Pixmania or eBuyer - the best advice is to seek advice from the vendor concerning eligibility for the cashback offer.

Ian

[StuartR]

Originally Posted by Stephen

As an aside, all my Canon lenses came with a hood, though I remember my 75-300 didn't but I no longer have that.

I suppose if your brother only uses it on full auto it won't make a lot of difference though.

That's because you're minted enough to buy L series lenses Stephen . Those of us at the lower end of the market have to pay for lens hoods - I certainly did for my 17-85mm, 70-300mm, 60mm Macro and 50mm Canons. They're not cheap either! The one for the 50mm is a bizarre two-piece affair the looks like they forgot to think about how to fit the lens hood until after they'd made the lens! I struggled to find one too and had to buy one 2nd-hand on eBay.

Incidentally I refused to buy one for my 70-300mm and bought a cheap rubber extendable jobbie from 7dayshop (IIRC). Turned out to be brilliant at the zoo - you can press the lens right against glass and even angle the camera slightly to get reflection-free images.

On your second point, yes, I suspect the camera will never come off auto. I've tried to teach the others the relationship between shutter speed, aperture and ISO setting but the penny just won't drop - not going to even try this time. Perhaps, when he gets a flash, I'll have a go at explaining reciprocity failure though

[Ian]

Originally Posted by StuartR

That's because you're minted enough to buy L series lenses Stephen . Those of us at the lower end of the market have to pay for lens hoods - I certainly did for my 17-85mm, 70-300mm, 60mm Macro and 50mm Canons. They're not cheap either! The one for the 50mm is a bizarre two-piece affair the looks like they forgot to think about how to fit the lens hood until after they'd made the lens! I struggled to find one too and had to buy one 2nd-hand on eBay.

Incidentally I refused to buy one for my 70-300mm and bought a cheap rubber extendable jobbie from 7dayshop (IIRC). Turned out to be brilliant at the zoo - you can press the lens right against glass and even angle the camera slightly to get reflection-free images.

On your second point, yes, I suspect the camera will never come off auto. I've tried to teach the others the relationship between shutter speed, aperture and ISO setting but the penny just won't drop - not going to even try this time. Perhaps, when he gets a flash, I'll have a go at explaining reciprocity failure though

My understanding is that digital sensors are not so prone to reciprocity failure compared to film

Ian

[StuartR]

Originally Posted by Ian

My understanding is that digital sensors are not so prone to reciprocity failure compared to film

Ian

I didn't know that, you learn something every day!

If I had a fiver for every time I've tried to explain why a compact camera's flash won't illuminate an entire football stadium to get a well exposed picture of Elton John / Take That etc., in the centre circle I'd be rich (well, I'd have at least £50 ). The fact that young Elton is about 2 pixels high by one pixel wide speck doesn't seem to matter... ).

I think 'er indoors needs to take my 40D and hire a EF600mm f4.0 L IS USM when she goes to see Take That (again ) in December, and hope that a combination of the stage lighting / IS / high ISO means she gets some usable images . On second thoughts, if i suggest that, she might make me go to take the pictures!

[Stephen]

I've also never associated it with the use of flash either, though I can see why you might To me the reason a flashgun won't illuminate these stadiums as you mention is simply due to flash drop off, ie the distance is too great, and the flash gun isn't powerful enough, if anything you shoul;d be trying to explain the Inverse Square Law

[Ian]

Erm, are we thinking about the same thing?

Reciprocity failure happens in either extremely long or extremely short exposures and causes the normal linear relationship between shutter speed and aperture to 'bend'. So a change of one stop no longer has the effect of a stop's difference in exposure under normal photographic conditions.

I think your reference to flash is regarding the inverse square law - the light intensity drops off dramatically beyond a certain distance, almost like an exponential increase in reverse.

Ian

[StuartR]

Many years ago a very intelligent colleague explained to me, in great detail, reciprocity failure AND the inverse square law - to be honest I was more interested in my pint & pork pie at the time so I probably wasn't listening that carefully. IIRC he mentioned that he'd been a photographer in the airforce and I said that I'd just read about reciprocity failure in a Time-Life photography book and, with that, he was away...

I guess, thinking about it (plus a quick google) reciprocity failure is more to do with long exposures without flash and the inverse square law could be used to explain flash drop-off so I got it the wrong way round..I think.


Pint & pork pie - staple diet of my 20's that I'm still paying for now, I don't do either anymore...don't miss 'em! I just associate a pork pie with a pack of lard and they don't seem attractive anymore...reminds me of the cheese sandwich I made myself whilst slightly inebriated (70's again) that, after a couple of mouthfuls, I discovered was actually full-fat anchor butter - not cheese

[Ian]

Originally Posted by StuartR

Many years ago a very intelligent colleague explained to me, in great detail, reciprocity failure AND the inverse square law - to be honest I was more interested in my pint & pork pie at the time so I probably wasn't listening that carefully. IIRC he mentioned that he'd been a photographer in the airforce and I said that I'd just read about reciprocity failure in a Time-Life photography book and, with that, he was away...

I guess, thinking about it (plus a quick google) reciprocity failure is more to do with long exposures without flash and the inverse square law could be used to explain flash drop-off so I got it the wrong way round..I think.


Pint & pork pie - staple diet of my 20's that I'm still paying for now, I don't do either anymore...don't miss 'em! I just associate a pork pie with a pack of lard and they don't seem attractive anymore...reminds me of the cheese sandwich I made myself whilst slightly inebriated (70's again) that, after a couple of mouthfuls, I discovered was actually full-fat anchor butter - not cheese

Haha! I see so much of myself in what you say

I lived on beef pasties when I was at college - I'm quite surprised I haven't gone down with Mad Cow Disease - maybe I shouldn't joke

I do like pork pies - but they are strictly a once in a blue moon treat these days!

Ian

[Tom]

I am over the moon with my relatively new Pentax 10D and their 50-200 lens is the best lens I have ever worked with.