Freezing a wing

[Pol]

I've been working towards a method of getting shots of a small bird with an extended wing, or wings, for months (nay years ).

Today I finally sussed a handholding technique, heavily influenced by some advice once given to me. ie - use a small aperture and flash to freeze the action.

I used the Pentax K10D with a Tamron 20-300 at full stretch, Pentax AF540FGZ gun with a flash extender attached. This one was shot at f/16 to freeze the movement. I had another at f/14 but it wasn't as effective as f/16. No doubt I'll keep working at it but I was very chuffed to get what I have so far Here's a resized copy ..

Pol

[Stephen]

Re: Freezing a wing

I've been working towards a method of getting shots of a small bird with an extended wing, or wings, for months (nay years ).

Today I finally sussed a handholding technique, heavily influenced by some advice once given to me. ie - use a small aperture and flash to freeze the action.

I used the Pentax K10D with a Tamron 20-300 at full stretch, Pentax AF540FGZ gun with a flash extender attached. This one was shot at f/16 to freeze the movement. I had another at f/14 but it wasn't as effective as f/16. No doubt I'll keep working at it but I was very chuffed to get what I have so far Here's a resized copy ..

Pol

Lovely picture Pol, but I'm a little confused. How does f/16 help freeze the action? Is it to do with letting the flash take over due to low ambient light, and therefore freeze the action because of the flash duration. If so, how many stops of EV would you think this shot was below ambient light. I'd be interested to know the shutter speed as well, indeed what is the max sync speed of your camera?........................................... ...I know, so many questions

[Martin]

Re: Freezing a wing

Hi Pol
Lovely capture I think you are right to be pleased with yourself. I too was a little confused with your reference to F16 but I assumed you were able to use a fast shutter because of the flash. How close to the blue tit was the flash and what shutter speed did you achieve. More questions I Know
Martin

[Pol]

Re: Freezing a wing

Lovely picture Pol, but I'm a little confused. How does f/16 help freeze the action? Is it to do with letting the flash take over due to low ambient light, and therefore freeze the action because of the flash duration. If so, how many stops of EV would you think this shot was below ambient light. I'd be interested to know the shutter speed as well, indeed what is the max sync speed of your camera?........................................... ...I know, so many questions

See! I knew I should've simply posted the picci and said nowt about how I did it, otherwise somebody would come along and ask me clever questions I probably can't answer accurately.

First of all - sync speed is 1/180.
I was shooting at EV -0.7 with the flashgun down a notch to reduce the output slightly as I was only about 15 ft away and the 'Better Beamer' can overdo it a touch on the lighter feathers. I used those setting after looking at a few test shots.

It was Mick Johnson who once explained to me that the way to freeze the wings and get some wing-feather detail was to use an aperture of approx f/14with carefully places flashguns so you're in control of the lighting.

He uses several guns and fires from a distance with a cable. He also uses a painted board to get smooth backgrounds.

I simply wanted to see if I could manage to freeze the wings as and when I aimed to rather than just hoping I might capture an open wing at random. That's why I set about seeing what I could achieve handholding. The feeders are in the shade with a lot of foliage around them so it wouldn't be possible to get much without flash. The extender meant I was able to target birds further away and within the leafy branches.

Mick would be the person to ask if you wanna know the really clever stuff about how and why it all works.

All I know for sure is that it worked ok for me today and that f/14 didn't give me wings as sharp as f/16. trial and error really .... and a lot of fun today with the Better Beamer. I might have a go with the 500mm next week if/when I have more free time. The flash extender makes a huge difference to the reach of the effective beam but it must be pointing directly on the subject.

Pol

[lumix]

Re: Freezing a wing

I believe the object of the exercise is to stop the camera from recording any ambient light. Therefor the fastest shutter speed that will synchronize with flash plus the smallest aperture will then restrict the camera to recording only the flash light. Flash light only last about 1/10,000 sec which effectively is the same as having a shutter speed this high. Hope I've got that right.

[Pol]

Re: Freezing a wing

Hi Pol
Lovely capture I think you are right to be pleased with yourself. I too was a little confused with your reference to F16 but I assumed you were able to use a fast shutter because of the flash. How close to the blue tit was the flash and what shutter speed did you achieve. More questions I Know
Martin

Oh heck. I hope my reply to Stephen might've answered your questions?

The flash does mean you can get a better speed with a smaller aperture but the smaller aperture also means you can get a better depth of field, more detail of the wings rather than just a 'ghostly' blur. The downside of the smaller aperture is that you don't always get a smooth background.

Hope that's about right. I'll dig up the full exif and copy/paste in a few minutes. Gotta check the dinner - it's nearly ready.

Pol

[Pol]

Re: Freezing a wing

I believe the object of the exercise is to stop the camera from recording any ambient light. Therefor the fastest shutter speed that will synchronize with flash plus the smallest aperture will then restrict the camera to recording only the flash light. Flash light only last about 1/10,000 sec which effectively is the same as having a shutter speed this high. Hope I've got that right.

I think I love you, Ron.

Exif coming up as soon as I'm able.

Pol

[lumix]

Re: Freezing a wing

I think I love you, Ron.

Exif coming up as soon as I'm able.

Pol

Never mind the exif data, whats for dinner?

[Stephen]

Re: Freezing a wing

You are right Ron, not sure exactly what the flash duration is with on camera flash, but I would have thought even if it was 1-2000/s it would have frozen the wing. Which suggests there was too much ambient light.

I think Pol should get a piece of old board paint it with dabs of green & brown and stick it in the tree behind the feeder, this would eliminate the distracting leaves and branches. Then put an ND filter to reduce ambient light even more and go for it.

OK thats yer project girl............................ report back next week

[Pol]

Re: Freezing a wing

You are right Ron, not sure exactly what the flash duration is with on camera flash, but I would have thought even if it was 1-2000/s it would have frozen the wing. Which suggests there was too much ambient light.

I think Pol should get a piece of old board paint it with dabs of green & brown and stick it in the tree behind the feeder, this would eliminate the distracting leaves and branches. Then put an ND filter to reduce ambient light even more and go for it.

OK thats yer project girl............................ report back next week

[Stephen]

Re: Freezing a wing

Shurrup and shove off, Yorkie! I have enough on my little plate trying to get to grips with all these ruddy flashguns, cameras, diffusers, reflectors and documents and handbooks surrounding me.

I wanna new camera bag too. 7dayshop has those Hama rucksacks on special offer again

Pol you can have mine for nothing if you want, I stopped using it ages ago and its sat collecting dust

[Pol]

Re: Freezing a wing

Never mind the exif data, whats for dinner?

Gert took over in the kitchen. Minced beef, Boiled spuds, Cauliflower, Broccoli amd Peas. Gerron yer bike and pedalling or yours might get cold, or even eaten.

The exif won't copy/paste from PS so I've made a small thumbnail size copy with exif included.

Here's the thumbnail with exif embedded

Pol

[Pol]

Re: Freezing a wing

Pol you can have mine for nothing if you want, I stopped using it ages ago and its sat collecting dust

Awww. That's very nice of you thank you but I've already ordered one and it's on it's way.

They're superb for storing kit. Not so good for carrying around, the Orion Trekker is better for that but it's not big enough to keep everything together at home and around the garden.

Pol

[lumix]

Re: Freezing a wing

You are right Ron, not sure exactly what the flash duration is with on camera flash, but I would have thought even if it was 1-2000/s it would have frozen the wing. Which suggests there was too much ambient light.

I think Pol should get a piece of old board paint it with dabs of green & brown and stick it in the tree behind the feeder, this would eliminate the distracting leaves and branches. Then put an ND filter to reduce ambient light even more and go for it.

OK thats yer project girl............................ report back next week

I will also look forward to seeing that. Flash duration dose vary a lot. Mostly depends, I believe, on the flash being quenched to control the exposure. The output remains constant from a flash tube, so exposure is controlled by how long the tube is allowed to burn. Most flash guns can extinguish the output when sufficient light has reflected back off the subject. At close range ie macro this can be extremely fast.

[Pops]

Re: Freezing a wing

See! I knew I should've simply posted the picci and said nowt about how I did it, otherwise somebody would come along and ask me clever questions I probably can't answer accurately.

First of all - sync speed is 1/180.
I was shooting at EV -0.7 with the flashgun down a notch to reduce the output slightly as I was only about 15 ft away and the 'Better Beamer' can overdo it a touch on the lighter feathers. I used those setting after looking at a few test shots.

It was Mick Johnson who once explained to me that the way to freeze the wings and get some wing-feather detail was to use an aperture of approx f/14with carefully places flashguns so you're in control of the lighting.

He uses several guns and fires from a distance with a cable. He also uses a painted board to get smooth backgrounds.

I simply wanted to see if I could manage to freeze the wings as and when I aimed to rather than just hoping I might capture an open wing at random. That's why I set about seeing what I could achieve handholding. The feeders are in the shade with a lot of foliage around them so it wouldn't be possible to get much without flash. The extender meant I was able to target birds further away and within the leafy branches.

Mick would be the person to ask if you wanna know the really clever stuff about how and why it all works.

All I know for sure is that it worked ok for me today and that f/14 didn't give me wings as sharp as f/16. trial and error really .... and a lot of fun today with the Better Beamer. I might have a go with the 500mm next week if/when I have more free time. The flash extender makes a huge difference to the reach of the effective beam but it must be pointing directly on the subject.

Pol

Interesting stuff Pol ............. guess who is going to have a go