Of Candles and Booze

[Steve40]

Playing around with the TZ1 again. Candle light + Wine = shutter 1/3, ISO 100, zoom 4X, then cropped a slight. Afterwards I drank the Wine, never let a good glass of Wine go to waste.

[Archangel]

Re: Of Candles and Booze

Playing around with the TZ1 again. Candle light + Wine = shutter 1/3, ISO 100, zoom 4X, then cropped a slight. Afterwards I drank the Wine, never let a good glass of Wine go to waste.

Steve,

Why you didn't place the glass of wine slightly in front of the candle and slightly off center in order to create a sparkling effect of the crystal glass (crystal has the ability to diffuse/spread light very well) and light up slightly the contained wine?
I would also think of using Incandescent Mode for this shot to avoid the reddish cast of the photo.

I see you have a TZ1. I have an FZ5 and after conducting some tests I realized that the camera produces less noise if ISO set to AUTO instead of using fixed preset ISO choices.
For example, when ISO set to AUTO and the camera chooses ISO 80 the photo has less noise from when the camera has been manually set to ISO80.
This applies to all ISOs. Though you loose the option to shoot at night with ISO80 or 100 for example. In this case you set it manually to personal preference.


Regards

George

[Steve40]

Re: Of Candles and Booze

Well lets see where to start. First the glass was some 4 inches leading the candle. The macro zoom I used changed all that, this was sort of an experiment that has not reached perfection as of yet.

There was also a small 25w bulb on the ceiling I used, so as to not fall over something I forgot to turn off, thus the highlights on the glass. I also forgot to turn off the OIS, which is recommended on a tripod. Total = sort of an experiment of learning not to make mistakes. I so very seldom do this kind of thing, I just continue to think outdoors.

As for auto, the camera would probably have thought in the terms of ISO 800 in this case. That is a complete disaster with the TZ, or any Panasonic camera I have seen so far. My son has an FZ7, believe it on not this camera has far less noise. At ISO 400 I get just a little fine grained noise, which was traditional of high speed films of yesteryear, which I don't really find to objectionable. But above that, its like break glass in case of an emergency only!.

Panasonic has had noise problems for years, I do not see why they have not addressed it. But I guess their thought is consumers don't know the difference anyway, which is really true.
But all the way around I like this little camera. It has a real metal body, something I have not seen for years. I also like the Leica like body style of it, and the big impressive glass out front. Its the most non P&S, P&S camera I have seen. With all the other flexibility, like everyone else, I cannot see why they just did not put a full manual function on it.

But that's another story, I spent so many years thinking "light meter, shutter speed, f stop, focus", I really enjoy the little P&S cameras. No work, and the older I get the less I like work. Besides if I want to torture myself, I still have a few manual 35 slr's laying around. Automatic has come so far in the last few years, there is really not much need for manual anymore, except for the diehards.

Oh drat! I should not have said that here.

[Archangel]

Re: Of Candles and Booze

Well lets see where to start. First the glass was some 4 inches leading the candle. The macro zoom I used changed all that, this was sort of an experiment that has not reached perfection as of yet.

There was also a small 25w bulb on the ceiling I used, so as to not fall over something I forgot to turn off, thus the highlights on the glass. I also forgot to turn off the OIS, which is recommended on a tripod. Total = sort of an experiment of learning not to make mistakes. I so very seldom do this kind of thing, I just continue to think outdoors.

As for auto, the camera would probably have thought in the terms of ISO 800 in this case. That is a complete disaster with the TZ, or any Panasonic camera I have seen so far. My son has an FZ7, believe it on not this camera has far less noise. At ISO 400 I get just a little fine grained noise, which was traditional of high speed films of yesteryear, which I don't really find to objectionable. But above that, its like break glass in case of an emergency only!.

Panasonic has had noise problems for years, I do not see why they have not addressed it. But I guess their thought is consumers don't know the difference anyway, which is really true.
But all the way around I like this little camera. It has a real metal body, something I have not seen for years. I also like the Leica like body style of it, and the big impressive glass out front. Its the most non P&S, P&S camera I have seen. With all the other flexibility, like everyone else, I cannot see why they just did not put a full manual function on it.

But that's another story, I spent so many years thinking "light meter, shutter speed, f stop, focus", I really enjoy the little P&S cameras. No work, and the older I get the less I like work. Besides if I want to torture myself, I still have a few manual 35 slr's laying around. Automatic has come so far in the last few years, there is really not much need for manual anymore, except for the diehards.

Oh drat! I should not have said that here.

Steve,

As I said I have an FZ5 and currently waiting for the update of the FZ7. It should come up somewhere in February-March I guess.
Personally I don't find the noise to be an issue in Panasonics as presented in some reviews. Besides that every camera manufacturer has a teademark on their cameras. Panasonic likes their cameras to have the slightly grainy look of old film cameras.
I really did some exhaustive comparison tests over the last couple of years in terms of noise in Panasonics and in terms of comparison of noise to other camera manufacturers (always in the same class/category of cameras, in other words compared apples with apples and oranges with oranges).
The noise is almost the same between same class cameras with very slight variations in terms of noise representation (some have noise in the form of luma, some in the form of chroma, some in some mixed ratio, e.t.c).

Anyway, I have no brand loyalty and I will buy any camera from any manufacturer as long as it suits to my personal taste and necessities.
From the FZ5, I'm very satisfied and one thing to say is that any camera when you get to know its habits, can lead in taking terrific photos.
The FZ5 is no exception and after the photos I've taken with this camera, I really never regret that I got rid of my 2 older DSLRs (one broke in accident, the other sold since it used to get wrong hues sometimes).

I mentioned to you about the AUTO ISO, not because I consider the Panasonics noisy (because I don't), but because the camera can take photos with even less noise than the standard noise when set to predefined ISO settings.

As far as your experiment is concerned, based on the "play around" that you mentioned on your initial post, I expresses my questions/suggestions.

Regards

George

[Steve40]

Re: Of Candles and Booze

I really don't find the noise levels as bad, or any worse in Panasonics than in other cameras of the same class myself. My sons problem with his FZ7, I think is he has never really learned the camera. Which was what I was trying to do in the above experiment. One thing about the TZ1 is it does have a little learning curve to it, if you expect to get the best results from it.

One thing I found was the metering. I have had Fuji's up until now, they use matrix metering, or basically you cant make a mistake metering. But the Panasonic uses average metering, + center weighted, + spot, more like the old reflected light meters. In this case; it leaves you to make decisions, as to how you need to compensate for the light under some conditions. I'm just getting back used to that. I'll try the auto ISO, but it seems to me that with the TZ at least, it is the other way around as far as noise goes.

Like I said up to 400, really no problem, but auto can use the 800 option, that is a different bag of oranges. 800 if you just had to get the shot would be justified, but no other way, and 1600 forget it.

[Steve40]

Re: Of Candles and Booze #PS

Oh I don't know if your panys are new enough to use the Venus lll engine, or not. But wait until you see it, at 800 it sets in big time, at 1600 it takes over completely. It wipes out more detail, than noise would be a problem. I am like someone else said, I would rather have the noise than to have the detail smeared out.

[Archangel]

Re: Of Candles and Booze #PS

Oh I don't know if your panys are new enough to use the Venus lll engine, or not. But wait until you see it, at 800 it sets in big time, at 1600 it takes over completely. It wipes out more detail, than noise would be a problem. I am like someone else said, I would rather have the noise than to have the detail smeared out.

Steve,

Possibly the TZ1 is the other way around as you said in terms of noise. I suggested that, just because the share the same chip sensor of 5MP with the FZ5. Maybe it works with your son's FZ7.
Yes I know what you mean about the Venus Engine III. Ispent much time, reading and comparing photos from all Panasonic Models since FZ3 and up to the last till now FZ50.

The FZ5 has the Venus Engine II which is not as harsh as the III but also the sensitivity stops to 400.
If you are not so satisfied of what the Venus Engine III does on the TZ1 on high ISOs above 200, then you should see (if you didn't yet) what the Venus Engine III does to the FZ50. It just makes a 10MP camera only usuable (at full resolution) only at ISO100 and ISO200 and slightly at ISO400.

In another Panasonic discussion forum, I had written that Panasonic instead of investing, updating and tuning Venus Engine systems should ask Matsushita to come up with less noisy chips as the resolutions break the 7MP barrier that according to my opinion distinguishes the compacts/superzooms consumer cameras from DSLRs.

Hopefully the lesson from the FZ50 have been taught to Panasonic.


Regards

George

[Steve40]

Re: Of Candles and Booze #PS

George,

Maybe that is the biggest difference in auto ISO, and manual. The noise engine does not seem to be as aggressive, until 800. I can use 400 almost anytime with only a grainy appearance as I said, when you convert to B&W it looks just like old TRI-X 400, ah sweet nostalgia.

[Archangel]

Re: Of Candles and Booze #PS

George,

Maybe that is the biggest difference in auto ISO, and manual. The noise engine does not seem to be as aggressive, until 800. I can use 400 almost anytime with only a grainy appearance as I said, when you convert to B&W it looks just like old TRI-X 400, ah sweet nostalgia.

Yes, for the TZ1 the noise reduction is not as harsh. Actually I've seen TZ1 photos at ISO400 and they look good given the class/category of the camera.
In the FZ50 things change dramatically to worse.

I'm curious to see the upcoming FZ8 and TZ2, or hoever else they will call them.


Regards

George

[Tinka]

Re: Of Candles and Booze

Playing around with the TZ1 again. Candle light + Wine = shutter 1/3, ISO 100, zoom 4X, then cropped a slight. Afterwards I drank the Wine, never let a good glass of Wine go to waste.

Sorry to break in on the subject of the panasonics between you two, but I thought I would say that I like the thinking behind this image, and i like the image, but in my opinion, I would now go back and Taking my time, reset and re-take the image, well worth it.

[Steve40]

Re: Of Candles and Booze

Tinka.

No intrusion we sort of turned this into a tech discussion, instead of a critique. I am going to re-set, and re-think this shot. I'll just have to wait until the force comes over me to do so.

I'm not much of a still life person, more of an outsider. In fact the only thing I have done close to this was for my daughter-in-law, she makes and sells candles. I did some shots for her of the different varieties she makes, for a portfolio. That turned out really well, but there was no specific mood involved, more or less just clinical photographs.

The suggestion of shifting the wine glass more in front of the candle, I had already considered. In fact it was somewhat in front, using macro telephoto I just eliminated any depth perception. I really did not think I wanted the glass to bunched up with the candle, but maybe I am not thinking clearly about this. Maybe a lower angle?, more from a side view?,. I am not really certain yet.