Computer conundrumsDigital photographers rely on the smooth running of their personal computers. Here's where to discuss problems and seek, as well as provide, advice.
I am not intending to dis any Mac fans - but the fact is that Windows 7 is actually pretty good and you will save money and have a mich wider choice of hardware and software with a Windows system.
I have just rebuilt a 4 year old PC for my daughter (PC tower system) and it's running Windows XP and it flies. I'm not recommending you do that, but it goes to show the value of Windows PCs.
More fundamentally, do you want a laptop or a desk or floor-based computer? Best prioritise what you want to do with your computer and what kind of software you will be running on it.
My father in law bought himself a very good quality Acer laptop with 15.6 inch screen, 4GB memory and an Intel Core i3 CPU, plus 320GB hard drive, for £450 from Comet before Christmas. I believe they will knock £50 off if you trade in your old computer as long as it will switch on.
Ian
Running both Snow Leopard & Windows 7 (still running on the partition) I have the opportunity to compare side by side, and Snow Leopard wins, and yes, I liked Windows 7 very much until I changed over to a Mac and liked that more.
If Gina is going to use the machine for professional photography a high end monitor is advisable. This is where cheaper Windows based machine catches up with an iMac on cost. A 27" iMac 32Ghz dual core i3 is £1399 delivered or a refurbished one from the Apple store (full warranty given by Apple) A Windows based machine with the equivalent high end monitor would work out at much the same cost or very possibly more.
The 27 inch monitors used my Apple are 2560 x 1440 resolution and look amazing.
I profiled my humble 21.5 inch iMac with my Spyder when it was first delivered, interestingly there was no change it arrived accurately profiled as did my MacBook.
I do feel as you say Ian, much is overplayed by many Mac users as regard Anti Virus safety, there are viruses out there just not as many as with a Windows based machines. I do run Sophos Anti Virus on my machines, the home user version is free and my research shows it to be very well thought off.
The rise in popularity of Mac machines will inevitably attract more attention from the virus writers.
Patrick's point on external monitors is an excellent one. In fact the need for an external monitor is partially what drove my choice of mac pro vs iMac. I needed a monitor with additional inputs to act as the display for the xbox .
I too was a a long time windows user. I had a power PC myself and ran a laptop downstairs for my wife and kids. All sort of worked well but when the laptop lost the will the live I took the opportunity to buy a small screened iMac for the family. The first thing I noticed was the silence from home during the day. The phone calls from my wife starting with the sentence " hi, it's me. The computer is doing this (insert random crash message)" just stopped. The family found the mac really easy to use and I agree with the comment from Ash that it makes you think why windows was so complicated by comparison. Given that I had multiple external hard drives and windows programs it took me another 9 months before I could face what I thought would be a huge move to a mac for myself. But with decision made I visited an apple store and had an appt with one of their sales guys and as I said earlier left with the model I needed rather than the one I thought I needed saving me a considerable amount of money. The service was excellent. For example I wanted more ram installed. The apple tech told me to go and have a coffee and a cake and they would fit the ram right there and then. Post that they offered free one to one training if I wanted it and even offered to transfer all my data from my PC. The cherry on the top for me was the phone call I received from the sales guy three weeks post purchase asking me how I was getting on and reminding me to give them a call if I wanted any help. Over all the years of buying a PC I have never had that sort of service.
I am now running a mac pro with 4 internal hardrives (which install in seconds with no exposed wires in the case) 14 gb of ram, and all backed up using time machine which means I can go back and correct those "small" deletion errors we all make from time to time
So in summary. I am not an apple fan because of the name apple. I am an apple fan because I do appreciate simplicity, i appreciate something that just works the way it supposed to with a significant drop in crashes vs my windows machines (note there are still some occasions when you need to force quit a specific program but I have never seen a full system crash yet) .
So going back to the start whichever route you go down all you will see on forums are the personal views of individuals which have been shaped by their experiences none of which should influence you but rather provide background knowledge on the given subject.
Regardless of platform, I personally would probably go with quite a powerful laptop and when at home (or at the main place of work) I'd connect it to a large external monitor.
If you want to run a powerful laptop, don't expect great battery life.
The choice of external monitor is quite technical as there are several types of LCD panel available and the differences in quality can be large. Unfortunately, LCD monitor manufacturers rarely declare what type of panel is used and some even change the panel type without changing the model numbers! For photography you should aim for an IPS (in-plane switching) panel monitor. These give the best colour reproduction and viewing angles and are easier to calibrate. They don't have fast refresh rates (typically 6-8ms rather than 2-3ms of TN-type panels which are not so good for photography) so don't expect an IPS monitor to be good for high speed gaming.
A 24 inch screen with a resolution of 1920x1080 pixels is a good starting point and most now have LED back-lights, which means more stable light quality over time, and less power consumption. These start at around £250. Maybe budget for your laptop at around £500 and you can get an excellent system for around £750. Maybe also budget for a backup drive and a full size keyboard and mouse when using the big screen (£100 extra).
Laptop spec:
Minimum 4GB RAM
500GB hard drive
15.6 inch screen - 1366x768 resolution, LED backlight
n-category wireless networking
Gigabit LAN wired networking
Look out for USB3 support
HDMI monitor support
Would be nice to have a PCIe card slot
Hi Josh. I too wish the imac had more inputs for external sources, however a bit late for you now but might be helpfull for others, there are third party adapters that allow any hdmi input to be displayed through the imacs mini displayport at 720p.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like the cheapest Macbook with a 15" screen is priced around £1500. You could get three similarly specified Acers for that money.
The cheapest Macbook appears to be a 13.3 inch screen model and this is not much less than £900.
Regardless of platform, I personally would probably go with quite a powerful laptop and when at home (or at the main place of work) I'd connect it to a large external monitor.
If you want to run a powerful laptop, don't expect great battery life.
The choice of external monitor is quite technical as there are several types of LCD panel available and the differences in quality can be large. Unfortunately, LCD monitor manufacturers rarely declare what type of panel is used and some even change the panel type without changing the model numbers! For photography you should aim for an IPS (in-plane switching) panel monitor. These give the best colour reproduction and viewing angles and are easier to calibrate. They don't have fast refresh rates (typically 6-8ms rather than 2-3ms of TN-type panels which are not so good for photography) so don't expect an IPS monitor to be good for high speed gaming.
A 24 inch screen with a resolution of 1920x1080 pixels is a good starting point and most now have LED back-lights, which means more stable light quality over time, and less power consumption. These start at around £250. Maybe budget for your laptop at around £500 and you can get an excellent system for around £750. Maybe also budget for a backup drive and a full size keyboard and mouse when using the big screen (£100 extra).
Laptop spec:
Minimum 4GB RAM
500GB hard drive
15.6 inch screen - 1366x768 resolution, LED backlight
n-category wireless networking
Gigabit LAN wired networking
Look out for USB3 support
HDMI monitor support
Would be nice to have a PCIe card slot
So what's your impression so far Gina?
Ian
I was also thinking along these lines of a good laptop, but recommend you guest it, a MacBook plus a Mac 27" monitor around £650 or an Eizo around £800 for a 24". Its true no Mac laptops at the moment sport USB3 only USB2 but they do have one firewire 800, and firewire can be daisy chained so many external drives can be run.
A good laptop and a top class monitor (Eizo, Lacie, NEC also do some top quality Pro monitor as do I believe Sony) is a workable one. This approach would mean at a later date the Mac pro could be invested in and the monitor could be used with that. The laptop then being use for field use
With respect Ian cheap £250 monitors you are suggesting to Gina are not I don't think good enough, as a potential Pro Photographer she should be aspiring to Pro kit.
If Gina decides to stay with windows I would still recommend the same high end Pro monitors
Josh's suggestion of a Mac pro if budget permits is obviously a good one.
Mac software is not the problem it used to be either, all the software Gina is likely to use as a Pro Photographer is offered for Mac, where it isn't there are alternative Mac only software out there to choose from. If she already has Win based software the Licenses can be moved over to Mac in my experience at no cost.
Also from a business point of view, second hand value on Macs is greater, they simply do not depreciate as fast as Win based machines. You have only to watch Macs on eBay to confirm this fact.
Hi Josh. I too wish the imac had more inputs for external sources, however a bit late for you now but might be helpfull for others, there are third party adapters that allow any hdmi input to be displayed through the imacs mini displayport at 720p.
Thanks Ash, but in all honesty I would still go for the Mac pro as I wanted the additional storage capacity of the 4 hard drive bays and I am also utilising the 4 firewire 800 ports which are amazingly fast.
Thanks Ash, but in all honesty I would still go for the Mac pro as I wanted the additional storage capacity of the 4 hard drive bays and I am also utilising the 4 firewire 800 ports which are amazingly fast.
Best regards
Josh
Hi Josh have you tried daisy chaining the firewire? I was wondering if speed were lost when doing so. I have an external storage using the firewire but iMacs have only one so I was intending having another hard drive daisy chained of the H/D I have.
Hi Josh have you tried daisy chaining the firewire? I was wondering if speed were lost when doing so. I have an external storage using the firewire but iMacs have only one so I was intending having another hard drive daisy chained of the H/D I have.
Patrick
Hi
I did a bit of reading on the subject and the summary seems to be yes you can daisy chain and the only time there will be a slow down of speed will be if you access a file off one of the drives and then whilst that activity is happening try and do something on another drive in the chain. Slow down is due to using the same bandwidth.
I did a bit of reading on the subject and the summary seems to be yes you can daisy chain and the only time there will be a slow down of speed will be if you access a file off one of the drives and then whilst that activity is happening try and do something on another drive in the chain. Slow down is due to using the same bandwidth.
Hope this helps
Josh
Sounds Reasonable, I intend buying a 2TB Western Digital By Book with raid for Backup and use the 1TB My Book I already have as as a hard drive extension with only my image files only on it.
I have a Buffalo WiFi TeraStation which is very good but as my image files get larger it takes a long time to back things up.
The firewire on the My Books as you say is lightening fast, even with a small amount of slow down will not be inconvenient.
Minimum 4GB RAM
500GB hard drive
15.6 inch screen - 1366x768 resolution, LED backlight
n-category wireless networking
Gigabit LAN wired networking
Look out for USB3 support
HDMI monitor support
Would be nice to have a PCIe card slot
Ian
Very attractive spec. for me, indeed.
I'm looking for a laptop these days although it's not very urgent (as my main PCs are desktops). My good old IBM laptop assembled in 2004 got a thunder surge last July.
Lenovo's orthorized service center returned it to me without repair saying the repair period expired in March.
A pity because it runs ok except one point - the USB ports do not recognize any external devices - monitor, keyboad, HDD, USB memories ...
At the moment I'm swaying between a laptop and a netbook.
yoshi
Personally firmly in the Windows 7 camp. I have an i7 machine and and a 27" monitor. Younger son has a Mac and I have still had to go and do things for him like getting his wireless printer to work for example(not sure if that is down to him or the Mac though :-)). I have had this machine for over a year now and it has never crashed and never had any downtime for repairs either. Nor have I had any viruses. I am guessing by the demographics on here that there are not a lot of gamers? I am one of these numpties that love Call of Duty etc as well. Don't get them for Mac. I know I can dual boot etc, just seems a waste of time. There is without a doubt a better range of hard and software available for Windows. I guess at the end of the day it is finding a machine that does what you want for the price you want. Up to this machine I have always built my own from scratch ( I was in too much of a hurry for this one), Can't do that with a Mac. Future proofing is impossible but at least with the PC you can upgrade various components as you like. Not sure you can do that with a Mac. As for PC World!! Just don't go there!! Sad, clueless individuals thrown into a job most do not understand except sell sell sell.
__________________
Just because cliches are cliches does not make them wrong. I do like walking in the rain.
There is without a doubt a better range of hard and software available for Windows. I guess at the end of the day it is finding a machine that does what you want for the price you want. Up to this machine I have always built my own from scratch ( I was in too much of a hurry for this one), Can't do that with a Mac. Future proofing is impossible but at least with the PC you can upgrade various components as you like. Not sure you can do that with a Mac.
Yes, you summarized the pros of Windows/PC very nicely. currently I use two desktop PC's which were built on BTO and I added later some other divices myself as well as one completely self-built PC.
The wider range of choices of both hardwares/softwares including free softs / higher possibility of getting good advices from other PC users when necessary etc. ... price competition is quite hard here so it helps me a lot
I think I partially understand the advantages of Mac which I learned from my Mac-user friends and do not necessarily intend to insist on Windows PC. Maybe I should also add that my Mac-user friends are mostly professional people although not in photography. But again, I'm not saying that correlation exists between Mac and being professional.
I just would like Gina to make a well informed decision especially when she starts her own business.
yoshi
You don't need to spend £800 on a top notch 24 inch monitor, much more like £250-£300 for an iiyama, for example, with an IPS LCD panel.
If you have a PCIe slot you can add Firewire 800 or USB3 adapters.
Ian
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick
I was also thinking along these lines of a good laptop, but recommend you guest it, a MacBook plus a Mac 27" monitor around £650 or an Eizo around £800 for a 24". Its true no Mac laptops at the moment sport USB3 only USB2 but they do have one firewire 800, and firewire can be daisy chained so many external drives can be run.
A good laptop and a top class monitor (Eizo, Lacie, NEC also do some top quality Pro monitor as do I believe Sony) is a workable one. This approach would mean at a later date the Mac pro could be invested in and the monitor could be used with that. The laptop then being use for field use
With respect Ian cheap £250 monitors you are suggesting to Gina are not I don't think good enough, as a potential Pro Photographer she should be aspiring to Pro kit.
If Gina decides to stay with windows I would still recommend the same high end Pro monitors
Josh's suggestion of a Mac pro if budget permits is obviously a good one.
Mac software is not the problem it used to be either, all the software Gina is likely to use as a Pro Photographer is offered for Mac, where it isn't there are alternative Mac only software out there to choose from. If she already has Win based software the Licenses can be moved over to Mac in my experience at no cost.
Also from a business point of view, second hand value on Macs is greater, they simply do not depreciate as fast as Win based machines. You have only to watch Macs on eBay to confirm this fact.
. 
!! Just don't go there
Linear Mode
