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  #16  
Old 10-01-07
John Houghton John Houghton is offline
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Re: Epson launches new A3+ six-colour photo printer - Stylus Photo 1400

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Originally Posted by JSR View Post
And before Epson abandoned ColorLife, you could have a half-decent fade resistant dye print.
Well, you still can. Ilford Gallerie Classic Pearl is virtually the same and a lot cheaper.

John
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  #17  
Old 10-01-07
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Re: Epson launches new A3+ six-colour photo printer - Stylus Photo 1400

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Originally Posted by John Houghton View Post
Well, you still can. Ilford Gallerie Classic Pearl is virtually the same and a lot cheaper.

John
Good point, John. Swellable polymer papers are excellent for non-glossy applications where fade resistant with dyes are important and the prints won't be handled excessively.

Interestingly, Kodak has dumped its swellable polymer 'Ultima' papers altogether now in favour of quick-dry microporous papers (branded 'Ultra').

One source of surprisingly good quality swellable surface paper is Lexmark's own brand - well worth a try if you can find it and it is quite inexpensive too.

Ian
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  #18  
Old 10-01-07
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Re: Epson launches new A3+ six-colour photo printer - Stylus Photo 1400

I can't spend all evening picking on the inconsistencies in your arguments as it's the missus' birthday and we're off for a meal out in a minute, but, (gasps for breath...!):

Quote:
Originally Posted by JSR View Post
I just say it as I see it. Maybe you're too close to have noticed. There was a period when you couldn't find an Epson dye printer because they'd gone Durabrite for consumers, Ultrachrome for pros, and the only real dye printer was the 1290 that was weathering the storm. Now that Epson are putting the spin on Claria, Durabrite is being dumped. It seems fairly obvious from where I'm sitting.
Codswallop, Epson's printer range has consistently had a balanced range of business pigment (Durabrite), dye and photo pigment printers in the last 2-3 years.

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I've already explained the HP scenario. Not being able to compete with Epson pigment, they pushed ahead with Vivera-dye saying that you didn't need pigment for long-life because dye would do it just as well. That was until they had their own pigment, at which time the message changed.

You call it cynicism, I call it realism.
Only if it's based on fact. The fact is that dye-based inks were wanting a few years back. You simply can't criticise the manufacturers for wanting to improve their dye ink technology.

Quote:
Check out this document: http://www.epson.co.jp/e/newsroom/te...0611single.pdf. One paragraph says "Claria has raised the bar for what a dye
ink can achieve." and another says "Claria ink is much more resistant to light and ozone thanks to its tightly clustered pigment molecules." They swing between pigment and dye so much that they can't even agree on what Claria is.
The dividing line behind 'dyes' in the traditional sense and 'pigments' is not like night and day. In molecular terms, the difference between a dye molecule and a pigment particle is can be considered primarily be one of size and both vary to the point that some dye molecules behave like pigment particles in certain ways.

Quote:
What other consumer printer, particularly from Epson, has lasted for 6 or 7 years without being replaced? I'm not talking about a "series" of printers, I'm talking about a specific single printer.
I didn't say 'consumer' - in fact I specifically said Epson changes their consumer models as frequently as anyone else, but some of the smaller business/graphic models have lasted a long time.

Quote:
Epson, like other manufacturers, have a habit (I'll refrain from using the word "policy") of obsoleting older printers purely to capitalise on new style ink cartridges and so make more money out of the punters. This is the reason for the revolving-door model of A4 printers - what you buy today won't be around tomorrow. The fact that the 1290 wasn't replaced so readily was because it didn't need to be. Likewise, if Epson were truly always supportive of dye inks, they would have remained with the 1290's dye ink in their A4 range until Claria. If it was good enough for the 1290 for 6 years, it would have been good enough for A4 equivalents.
The 1290 is a niche model, it sells in small but steady numbers. The R1400 is a revision of the R1800 and R2400 chassis, so not too expensive to reengineer into the R1400.

The 1290's ink formulation is inferior to Claria, so why would they want to stick with it

Quote:
The Picturemate models have clearly been replaced because Epson's original plan of going pigment-only has changed now that they have Claria. The Picturemate is a clear example of being replaced for the sake of being replaced, not necessarily being replaced by something better.
Instant drying, high gloss, prints, which the pigment PictureMate prints are not, are much more suitable for the target market of the PictureMate.

Quote:
The Picturemate is the example of Epson being blindsided. They didn't expect the Picturemate to be such an economical runner. I'll just bet they've corrected that oversight with the new range, though.
Hmmmm... you used only to get 100 sheets in a PictureMate Picture Pack, it's now 150.

Quote:
Look at the Epson PM100 that came along to rapidly replace the original Picturemate. This was before Claria came along and no one knows anything about its fade resistance or durability of print. The only reason it came along can only be because the previous PMs were cheap to run and the 100 corrected that error. What other reason can there be?
Eh? You've lost me there...

Quote:
I'm not accusing anyone of anything, I'm just saying what I'm seeing. If the message is wrong, look in the horse's mouth, don't blame the reader of the book. Benefit of the doubt vanished when greed became policy.
There is always a trade-off between progress and perceived value. But above all, companies like Epson need to react to the market in order to survive. It's a big struggle all the time to remain profitable, despite what you might think, in the ink jet printer business.

Analysts have been predicting for some time that one of the big name ink-jet printer names will disappear eventually.

Anyway - I'm off to enjoy the evening with my ageing wife

Have a good one yourself!

Ian
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  #19  
Old 10-01-07
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Josh Bear Josh Bear is offline
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Re: Epson launches new A3+ six-colour photo printer - Stylus Photo 1400

Not to go off at a tangent but where does the word "Codswallop" come from?

Best Regards

Josh
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  #20  
Old 10-01-07
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Re: Epson launches new A3+ six-colour photo printer - Stylus Photo 1400

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian View Post
Codswallop, Epson's printer range has consistently had a balanced range of business pigment (Durabrite), dye and photo pigment printers in the last 2-3 years.
News to me. Epson's consumer range had Durabrite, professional range had Ultrachrome. Both pigment. Dye all but vanished.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian View Post
Only if it's based on fact. The fact is that dye-based inks were wanting a few years back. You simply can't criticise the manufacturers for wanting to improve their dye ink technology.
Ah, but Epson didn't have any improvement to their dye which is why they began switching to pigment (Durabrite) in their consumer printers. This didn't reach the A3 models which is why everyone and their dog wanted to believe that the R1800 was the 1290's replacement - which it wasn't. Only now have Epson got an improvement to their dye ink, with Claria. The only improvement before Claria was to use pigment and this is what they did. Except for the 1290.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian View Post
The dividing line behind 'dyes' in the traditional sense and 'pigments' is not like night and day. In molecular terms, the difference between a dye molecule and a pigment particle is can be considered primarily be one of size and both vary to the point that some dye molecules behave like pigment particles in certain ways.
Sounds like muddying the waters to me. "Ok yes, dye and pigment are different, except they're not..." Clear as mud.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian View Post
The 1290 is a niche model, it sells in small but steady numbers. The R1400 is a revision of the R1800 and R2400 chassis, so not too expensive to reengineer into the R1400.
I'd agree with that. It's pretty much what I said before - change for change's sake. It's cheaper for Epson to shoehorn a dye-printer into an existing chassis than to continue with the 1290 which uses a different chassis.

Actually, if the 1290 sells in small but steady numbers to a niche market, it makes it even more of a surprise that Epson want to replace it with a new model. In my experience, particularly these days, the 1290 is used largely by people using third-party quad-black inksets and as dye-sublimation printers - it's a very popular printer in that market. Changing to a new model - the 1400 - might kill its sales completely. The dye-sublimation users have been slowly converting to the R1800, because it was believed that the R1800 would make the 1290 obsolete; and the quad-black users can pick and choose from other Epson and HP printers that already feature multiple blacks without setting up a whole new system afresh.

All arguing aside, I wonder if the 1400 is going to find the same "niche" as the 1290. I suspect that the 1400's niche will be a lot smaller because the R1800 is already here. I honestly can't see who's going to buy the 1400 - leastwise not until third party users have converted to it, if they ever will.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian View Post
The 1290's ink formulation is inferior to Claria, so why would they want to stick with it
That's not the point I was making. While consumer models have changed more frequently than Epson change their collective socks, the 1290 has not changed. Therefore it didn't need changing, and if it didn't why did all the others?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian View Post
Instant drying, high gloss, prints, which the pigment PictureMate prints are not, are much more suitable for the target market of the PictureMate.
Funny, prints from my Picturemate (original pigment) are instant drying, high gloss.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian View Post
Hmmmm... you used only to get 100 sheets in a PictureMate Picture Pack, it's now 150.
That indicates that you've bought into the sales talk. The original PictureMate Picture Packs come with 135 sheets and you actually need more sheets than that to use all the ink. The new picturepack is nothing to write home about. Unless, of course, it actually enables you to print 200 prints instead of the quoted 150 in the way that the original PM can print 150 prints instead of the initially quoted 100?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian View Post
Eh? You've lost me there...
I don't see why. Do you have any explanation for the Picturemate 100? A dye-based picturemate before Claria came along? What was the point, except to make prints more expensive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian View Post
Anyway - I'm off to enjoy the evening with my ageing wife
Hope you have a good time.
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  #21  
Old 10-01-07
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Re: Epson launches new A3+ six-colour photo printer - Stylus Photo 1400

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Bear View Post
Not to go off at a tangent but where does the word "Codswallop" come from?

Best Regards

Josh
I don't think anyone really knows:



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  #22  
Old 05-12-07
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Re: Epson launches new A3+ six-colour photo printer - Stylus Photo 1400

I may be resurrecting an old thread, but I bought myself an Epson 1400 recently. Although I have an R1800 for photos, I use a 1290S for sublimation inks and with the disappearance of the 1290S, I figured it'd be wise to invest in its replacement.

I bought it for £239 from Amazon (ironically, that's just about the price that the original released-in-error price was stated at on the original press release).

The first one I got had to go back because it wouldn't recognise the supplied cyan cartridge. Epson's advice was to "make sure you use genuine Epson inks" (presumably implying that they ship new printers with non-genuine dodgy inks, yes?). Their second piece of advice was to buy a new ink and try that out. They were not prepared to send a replacement ink to try out, and I wasn't prepared to spend additional money on a printer that might be inherently faulty, so I spoke to Amazon.

Amazon sent a replacement and took the old one back (it's not their policy to replace part of an order so they couldn't just send a new ink cartridge). This second one works fine straight out of the box.

Before I convert it for sublimation use, I'm using the supplied inks to run a few tests and to catch up on a lot of printable DVDs I need to print.

Although the 1400 is built around the same chassis as the R1800, I'm surprised at how flimsy it feels. The R1800 is far more solidly built with its spring-loaded paper tray and better paper input guides. By comparison, the 1400 has a distinct plasticky-feel about it - not like the cheap breadbins Epson used to produce, but certainly a bit more of the "this was produced on the quick with cheaper materials" about it.

It produces pleasing prints, prints that anyone who's after large snapshots would be happy with. Personally, I prefer the more accurate prints that come from the R1800 but I'm sure that's just personal taste. It does nice printed CD/DVDs, though, which seem to dry a little quicker than the R1800.

It's meant to be a quick printer, and I guess it is marginally faster than the 1290S - but it's still a bit of a slowpoke compared to the R1800.

I want to try printing a panorama on the 1400 before the inks get low but, as it has no roll paper support, I need to waste time chopping up paper from the roll I've used with both my R1800 and 1290S. It'll be very annoying if I feed in a 30" sheet cut from the roll only for it to have a hiccup 5" down the paper - the whole sheet would need chucking, instead of just trimming off the dodgy bit as I would in the older printers. A bigger issue is that Olmec (the brand of roll paper I use) do not list the 1400 on their website or provide ICC profiles, even though the printer is now a year old. It may well be that I won't be able to print using Olmec paper on the 1400, even though I could with the 1290/S and R1800. That's not Epson's fault, obviously, but it restricts the printer from being a real replacement for the 1290S in these terms.

I had trouble printing when I first installed the printer. In order to find out what the error was on the first 1400 I'd installed the printer driver and status monitor. The printer printed fine on paper. Then I installed "Epson Print CD" - but it refused to print CDs claiming a file was missing. The only way to sort out the problem was to install the whole bundle using defaults.

Did anyone else buy this printer?
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  #23  
Old 05-12-07
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Re: Epson launches new A3+ six-colour photo printer - Stylus Photo 1400

Follow up -

I had a go at panorama printing on the 1400 but have had to give up. I cut a sheet approximately 30" long from my roll paper - using a guillotine to get a straight edge and rolling the edge back to help it feed through the printer.

Every single time the printer just ejected the paper. I ended up manhandling it several times but still it wouldn't take it. Eventually it took it wrong and screwed it up, so I ended up throwing away 30" of 13" wide worth of decent paper. Even if it had taken it, there would be so many finger marks and scuff marks on the paper from the number of times the printer ejected it that it just wouldn't have been worth it.

Added to this, the lack of proper support for roll paper means that you can't print 13" wide (full-bleed) on custom-length paper. You can print full-bleed on 13" paper on both the 1290/S and the R1800 but not the 1400, so even if you can get the printer to take the paper you can't print 13" wide.

So I've come to the conclusion that Epson's removal of roll paper support is a massive backwards step. I've never had an issue putting roll paper into either the R1800 or the 1290 (or 1290S). For panoramic printing, I cannot recommend the 1400 at all as a replacement for the 1290S. It's, by far and away, a crippled replacement for its predecessor.

Back to my R1800 for panos, then.
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  #24  
Old 05-12-07
John Houghton John Houghton is offline
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Re: Epson launches new A3+ six-colour photo printer - Stylus Photo 1400

When feeding a sheet cut from a roll, I have found it helps a lot to de-curl it by rolling it up the wrong way round on a cardboard tube and leave it for an hour or two. If the end is cut correctly, as you are doing, and it is flat, then there is no reason for the printer to treat it any differently to any other sheet of paper. I have a 1290 and 2100 and have used both of them without the supplied roll paper supports for years. The paper needs de-curling at some stage, so it might as well be before printing as after.

For testing the feasibity of long prints, particularly over 44 inches, I have used sheets of plain paper joined together with masking tape. Cutting A4 sheets in half lengthwise enables long sheets to be made economically. Make the image to be printed mostly white, and practically no ink will be wasted either. CS2 prints over 44 inches without any problems.

John
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