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Colour management The rock on which consistent and accurate digital imaging workflow stands. If you don't know what colour management means, you need this board.

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Old 24-11-06
Mick Johnson Mick Johnson is offline
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Lcd Monitor's

I'm wanting an LCD to replace my CRT but am finding it hard to find anything that seems really good for colour matching for under 1000.

I've read too many reviews on too many monitors and am now getting lost.

Trouble is, I have a perfect screen to print match (and I mean perfect) with my old CRT and I'm worried I won't get the same thing with an LCD unless I spend a fortune.

So, apart from Eizo and NEC that have specific models for colour matching and both are about 1000 are there any other good options.

From all the reviews I've read the Samsung 970p and the Viewsonic vp930 seem to be about the best for the money. I'm looking for a 19" btw.

Has anyone here got a perfect colour match using an average priced LCD
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Old 24-11-06
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Re: Lcd Monitor's

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick Johnson View Post
I'm wanting an LCD to replace my CRT but am finding it hard to find anything that seems really good for colour matching for under 1000.

I've read too many reviews on too many monitors and am now getting lost.

Trouble is, I have a perfect screen to print match (and I mean perfect) with my old CRT and I'm worried I won't get the same thing with an LCD unless I spend a fortune.

So, apart from Eizo and NEC that have specific models for colour matching and both are about 1000 are there any other good options.

From all the reviews I've read the Samsung 970p and the Viewsonic vp930 seem to be about the best for the money. I'm looking for a 19" btw.

Has anyone here got a perfect colour match using an average priced LCD
You certainly can get a good match with a reasonable quality LCD monitor, though I still prefer a CRT myself. LCDs actually stay calibrated longer than CRTs too.

But you need to calibrate the monitor and your printer, ideally, regularly. Do you actually calibrate your monitor?

Good LCD monitor brands are Samsung, Sony, NEC, Eizo and iiyama. I rate Fujtsu-Siemens too. The main spec. feature to look out for is the contrast ratio - you can't get enough of this as LCDs are very deficient in contrast ratios compared to CRTs. You should be aiming for 1000:1 or more. Next is the viewing angle, though this is more important for TVs as you will probably be sitting in line with the screen. The update rate in ms is only really critical for game enthusiasts.

You should be able to get a good 19 inch CRT for under 300.

Ian
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Old 24-11-06
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Re: Lcd Monitor's

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Originally Posted by Ian View Post

But you need to calibrate the monitor and your printer, ideally, regularly. Do you actually calibrate your monitor?

Good LCD monitor brands are Samsung, Sony, NEC, Eizo and iiyama. I rate Fujtsu-Siemens too. The main spec. feature to look out for is the contrast ratio - you can't get enough of this as LCDs are very deficient in contrast ratios compared to CRTs. You should be aiming for 1000:1 or more. Next is the viewing angle, though this is more important for TVs as you will probably be sitting in line with the screen. The update rate in ms is only really critical for game enthusiasts.

Ian

I do calibrate mine regulary.

I find your quote on contrast interesting as all the top of the range Eizo and Nec are no more than 500-1. The 2500 Eizo is 400-1.

I have read that for imaging the contrast ratio matters not, is that right? Only for games and dvd do you have an advantage and I'm no gamer.

I also read that with a high contrast ratio, when turning it down can have adverse effects on some monitors with a very high ratio.

I have a Samsung now and so fancy the 970p (270) atm unless anyone knows of something better.

I'll have to keep the old CRT though, I think.
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Old 24-11-06
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Re: Lcd Monitor's

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick Johnson View Post
I do calibrate mine regulary.

I find your quote on contrast interesting as all the top of the range Eizo and Nec are no more than 500-1. The 2500 Eizo is 400-1.

I have read that for imaging the contrast ratio matters not, is that right? Only for games and dvd do you have an advantage and I'm no gamer.

I also read that with a high contrast ratio, when turning it down can have adverse effects on some monitors with a very high ratio.

I have a Samsung now and so fancy the 970p (270) atm unless anyone knows of something better.

I'll have to keep the old CRT though, I think.
Are you confusing brightness with contrast ratio? Max brightness of under 500 cd/m2 is typical - normal range is 300, but the better LCDs are now all at 1000:1 contrast ratio.

You always want as much contrast ratio as possible as this is the limiting factor for reproducing the dynamic range of your image. Good LCDs are 1000:1 but CRTs and plasma displays are more like 10,000:1. Next time you are in a TV shop, try and find an LCD next to a plasma panel showing the same feed - the difference is astonishing and one reason why, when our CRT TV eventually packs in, I'll probably be speccing a plasma rather than an LCD.

The spec. that is not important unless you are gaming is the response time - which is the time the pixels take to alter state, measured in milliseconds.

Ian
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Old 24-11-06
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Re: Lcd Monitor's

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick Johnson View Post
I do calibrate mine regulary.

I find your quote on contrast interesting as all the top of the range Eizo and Nec are no more than 500-1. The 2500 Eizo is 400-1.

I have read that for imaging the contrast ratio matters not, is that right? Only for games and dvd do you have an advantage and I'm no gamer.

I also read that with a high contrast ratio, when turning it down can have adverse effects on some monitors with a very high ratio.

I have a Samsung now and so fancy the 970p (270) atm unless anyone knows of something better.

I'll have to keep the old CRT though, I think.
Stop being bogged down by all that technical clap trap.

Samsung , LG, Sony, Viewsonic, and many other top name brands will give you a excellent LCD 19 monitor for around 200-250.

A friend of mine has an Eizo and yes it very good particularly the angle of view, I have a Samsung 193v, square on its as good as the Eizo but from an angle the Eizo wins, but not 4 times better which is the price difference.

As to colour matching I heard all the horror stories that put me off for about two years, in the end I had to buy a new monitor, the Samsung my old Ilyama gave up.
I profiled it with a Spider and my prints are a match, no problem of any kind.
Wish I had changed before; I would never go back to a CRT again.
I would suggest you get a Spider or equivalent for profiling the screen, and give yourself that extra edge and have custom print profiles written. That I would suggest whatever type of monitor you by LCD or CRT anyway.

Patrick
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Old 24-11-06
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Re: Lcd Monitor's

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian View Post
Are you confusing brightness with contrast ratio? Max brightness of under 500 cd/m2 is typical - normal range is 300, but the better LCDs are now all at 1000:1 contrast ratio.

You always want as much contrast ratio as possible as this is the limiting factor for reproducing the dynamic range of your image. Good LCDs are 1000:1 but CRTs and plasma displays are more like 10,000:1. Next time you are in a TV shop, try and find an LCD next to a plasma panel showing the same feed - the difference is astonishing and one reason why, when our CRT TV eventually packs in, I'll probably be speccing a plasma rather than an LCD.

The spec. that is not important unless you are gaming is the response time - which is the time the pixels take to alter state, measured in milliseconds.

Ian
I had a look at a high-end (CG221) Eizo specs and, indeed, the the contrast ratio is declared surprisingly lowat just 400:1. The maximum brightness is also low at just 200 cd/m2. My hunch is that these monitors are designed for use in very low ambient light conditions, so the panel is being viewed optimally. This means you can get away with lowered brightness and not have to over-do the lamp brightness to get a high contrast ratio. In other words, Eizo is probably being more sensible with the set up of its panel than others flogging cheaper monitors.

Ian
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Old 24-11-06
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Re: Lcd Monitor's

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian View Post
Are you confusing brightness with contrast ratio? Max brightness of under 500 cd/m2 is typical - normal range is 300, but the better LCDs are now all at 1000:1 contrast ratio.

Ian
No, I'm not confused. The 19" Eizo Pro 'Colour Range' monitor has a 450-1 ratio and is 1000.

They do have a slow response time but they ain't for games and dvd.

I think the Samsung I'm looking at is 1000/1.

Think I'm even more confused now
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Old 24-11-06
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Re: Lcd Monitor's

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
Stop being bogged down by all that technical clap trap.

Samsung , LG, Sony, Viewsonic, and many other top name brands will give you a excellent LCD 19 monitor for around 200-250.

A friend of mine has an Eizo and yes it very good particularly the angle of view, I have a Samsung 193v, square on its as good as the Eizo but from an angle the Eizo wins, but not 4 times better which is the price difference.

As to colour matching I heard all the horror stories that put me off for about two years, in the end I had to buy a new monitor, the Samsung my old Ilyama gave up.
I profiled it with a Spider and my prints are a match, no problem of any kind.
Wish I had changed before; I would never go back to a CRT again.
I would suggest you get a Spider or equivalent for profiling the screen, and give yourself that extra edge and have custom print profiles written. That I would suggest whatever type of monitor you by LCD or CRT anyway.

Patrick
Hi Patrick,

I think you say a lot of good sense there. My main issue with LCDs is that the pixels are too big and so I see pixellation and aggravated noise artefacts on average LCD displays compared to a CRT. The view, to me anyway, on a good CRT is smoother and the depth of tone better. But it's almosy academic as decent quality CRTs are practically unobtainable any more. My 22" iiyama CRT, bought at the beginning of the year, was part of iiyama UK's last batch and an ex-demonstrator. I get LCDs in to review from time to time and my CRT is still demonstrably better compared side by side. As soon as 20 inch 1600x1200 LCDs are affordable, I will just about be ready to retire my iiyama CRT

Ian
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Old 24-11-06
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Re: Lcd Monitor's

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Hi Patrick,

My main issue with LCDs is that the pixels are too big and so I see pixellation and aggravated noise artefacts on average LCD displays compared to a CRT.

Ian
Think I'll wait till my CRT dies.
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Old 25-11-06
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Re: Lcd Monitor's

So my Philips 19" with contrast of 500:1 and brightness of 250 cd/m2 isn't anything to write home about then? Pictures looks great on it, though.

Quote:
My main issue with LCDs is that the pixels are too big and so I see pixellation and aggravated noise artefacts on average LCD displays compared to a CRT.
I know what you mean, but can't you tell this from the optimal resolution? A colleague's old IBM laptop had a 14" screen with 1024x768 resolution - and you could see the pixels. My laptop had a 15" screen with 1400x1050 resolution - and you could not see the pixels. My current Philips 19" LCD has 1280x1024 resolution so you'd expect to see pixels, but you don't unless you glue your eyes 2" from the screen.

Previously I had (still have it somewhere) a Sharp 15" LCD with 1024x768 resolution. You could see the pixels on that, but the picture quality was still pretty fantastic.
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Old 25-11-06
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Re: Lcd Monitor's

It does depend on viewing distance. I'm using a 17" WSXGA screen on a desktop replacement notebook as I type this, which is 1440x900 and I can see the aliased outline of the characters quite clearly. I can't on my 1600x1200 22" (20" visible) iiyama CRT. I can't see the pixels on the 8.9 inch 1280 pixel wide screen on my old Vaio PictureBook, unless I peer real close

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Old 11-12-06
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Re: A good LCD monitor group test in PC Pro mag

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Originally Posted by Mick Johnson View Post
I'm wanting an LCD to replace my CRT but am finding it hard to find anything that seems really good for colour matching for under 1000.

I've read too many reviews on too many monitors and am now getting lost.

Trouble is, I have a perfect screen to print match (and I mean perfect) with my old CRT and I'm worried I won't get the same thing with an LCD unless I spend a fortune.

So, apart from Eizo and NEC that have specific models for colour matching and both are about 1000 are there any other good options.

From all the reviews I've read the Samsung 970p and the Viewsonic vp930 seem to be about the best for the money. I'm looking for a 19" btw.

Has anyone here got a perfect colour match using an average priced LCD
There is quite a good 19 inch monitor group test in PC Pro - the issue just coming out (front cover features Web 2.0).

There is some explanation of the relative quality variables to consider.

Ian
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Old 12-12-06
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Re: Lcd Monitor's

hi, my son in law has a Sony 21 crt, & everytime i see it i have reckoned it is smoother, & looks better than my samsung, not that i,m an expert by any means, a friend showed me some photo,s taken by another abroad, & i said, i bet they were taken with film & not digital, just seem to see a difference,,,, john
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Old 13-12-06
Mick Johnson Mick Johnson is offline
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Re: A good LCD monitor group test in PC Pro mag

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There is quite a good 19 inch monitor group test in PC Pro - the issue just coming out (front cover features Web 2.0).

There is some explanation of the relative quality variables to consider.

Ian

Well, I still have my crt atm.

My son has just had a 19" lcd (Fairly cheap 150) monitor and looking at that, especially text, I prefer my crt.

I still hav'nt seen, or had the chance to use something like I was looking for though.

The PC Pro test....is that on the net?
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Old 16-12-06
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Re: A good LCD monitor group test in PC Pro mag

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Well, I still have my crt atm.

My son has just had a 19" lcd (Fairly cheap 150) monitor and looking at that, especially text, I prefer my crt.

I still hav'nt seen, or had the chance to use something like I was looking for though.

The PC Pro test....is that on the net?
I think their tests do end up on the Net eventually, at pcpro.co.uk. There are also monitors tested in PC Plus magazine this month.

Ian
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