Digital Photography Now - www.dpnow.com  
 
advertisements

Go Back   DPNow.com Discussion Forum > Welcome > General discussion

General discussion If you aren't sure which forum your post would be best housed in, post it here. Some posts and threads may eventually be moved to other forums.

View Poll Results: Does being hassled by police or security put you off photographing in public?
Yes it does and I photograph less in public than before. 8 61.54%
No it doesn't. I know my right and I'm confident about my photography in public. 5 38.46%
I'm not sure. 0 0%
Voters: 13. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 11-10-11
ekkl ekkl is offline
Smile!
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Sussex UK
Posts: 635
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Likes: 0
Liked at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
ekkl is on a distinguished road
Re: Police intimidation of photographers?

So what do we think of recent events in Scotland?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-15238676
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 11-10-11
Pol's Avatar
Pol Pol is offline
Ancient Geek
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: West Kent, UK
Posts: 5,613
Thanks: 174
Thanked 68 Times in 63 Posts
Likes: 299
Liked at 101 Times in 88 Posts
Rep Power: 0
Pol is on a distinguished road
Re: Police intimidation of photographers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ekkl View Post
So what do we think of recent events in Scotland?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-15238676

I read about that yesterday and TBH he was just asking for trouble. There were clear notices saying photography wasn't allowed on the premises and it seems he ignored them.

He was on private property, there were notices stating photography wasn't allowed so it's hardly surprising he was approached by a security official.


Pol
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 11-10-11
rogleale rogleale is offline
Forum veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 601
Thanks: 0
Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts
Likes: 0
Liked at 18 Times in 12 Posts
Rep Power: 0
rogleale is on a distinguished road
Re: Police intimidation of photographers?

Not really Pol. The operators of the complex have said that they have no objection to people taking photographs in the centre so surely the security man should have known that and not become officious. It was clearly a man taking pictures of his daughter, do you think that the same thing would have happened to a mother doing the same thing?
What is worrying is that even the police don't know the laws relating to taking photographs. They can ask the photographer to desist, and can ask them politely to leave the premises, but they have no right to ask for the film/card, or the deleting of pictures and can not confiscate the camera without a court order being granted. The main point is that anti-terrorism laws are being invoked by officious busy-bodies when there is no clear reason for doing so apparently just to boost their egos, and the police should know better and be brave enough to instruct the security guards on their limitations.

Rant over,

Roger
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 11-10-11
Pol's Avatar
Pol Pol is offline
Ancient Geek
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: West Kent, UK
Posts: 5,613
Thanks: 174
Thanked 68 Times in 63 Posts
Likes: 299
Liked at 101 Times in 88 Posts
Rep Power: 0
Pol is on a distinguished road
Re: Police intimidation of photographers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rogleale View Post
Not really Pol. The operators of the complex have said that they have no objection to people taking photographs in the centre so surely the security man should have known that and not become officious. It was clearly a man taking pictures of his daughter, do you think that the same thing would have happened to a mother doing the same thing?
What is worrying is that even the police don't know the laws relating to taking photographs. They can ask the photographer to desist, and can ask them politely to leave the premises, but they have no right to ask for the film/card, or the deleting of pictures and can not confiscate the camera without a court order being granted. The main point is that anti-terrorism laws are being invoked by officious busy-bodies when there is no clear reason for doing so apparently just to boost their egos, and the police should know better and be brave enough to instruct the security guards on their limitations.

Rant over,

Roger
The operators of the centre have now changed the rules to allow family members to take photographs (of their own relatives).

At the time the father took the photo of his daughter it was VERY clear photography was NOT permitted. So the security chap was simply doing his job. No charges were pressed, the police explained things to the father, expalined they couldn't force him to delete the pictures.

The fact of the matter is he was on PRIVATE PROPERTY and there were clear notices stating PHOTOGRAPHY NOT PERMITTED. He was out of order at that time and in that place.

The rules have since changed, possily due to the incident being so widely reported - but that can never alter the fact the father was in the wrong at that time. He could've asked permission to take a picci of his daughter and it would probably have been granted, but he didn't. He simply ignored the notices and it backfired on him.


Pol
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 11-10-11
Graham_of_Rainham's Avatar
Graham_of_Rainham Graham_of_Rainham is offline
Forum veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Rainham Essex
Posts: 1,427
Thanks: 26
Thanked 40 Times in 36 Posts
Likes: 79
Liked at 57 Times in 46 Posts
Rep Power: 0
Graham_of_Rainham is on a distinguished road
Re: Police intimidation of photographers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pol View Post
<snip>He was on private property<snip>
Unfortunatly more and more "Public Property" is coming under the control of private companies, to the point where some previous high streets are now "controlled" areas.

As this increases, more and more places considered "Public" will be managed and will be the subject of more and more constraints...

Google:"Privatisation of the public space" and up pops 2.7M bits of info, many of which discuss the errosion of our rights...

Hopefully, sooner rather than later, there will be a test case in which free access by the public, to private place will provide the same rights and freedoms as exist in a public place. After all if the Road Traffic Acts apply in the car parks of these private spaces, then equally should not all laws apply.
__________________
Graham
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 11-10-11
rogleale rogleale is offline
Forum veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 601
Thanks: 0
Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts
Likes: 0
Liked at 18 Times in 12 Posts
Rep Power: 0
rogleale is on a distinguished road
Re: Police intimidation of photographers?

file:///C:/Users/Roger/Desktop/Capture.JPG
file:///C:/Users/Roger/Desktop/Capture2.JPG
file:///C:/Users/Roger/Desktop/Capture3.JPG
file:///C:/Users/Roger/Desktop/Capture4.JPG
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 12-10-11
rogleale rogleale is offline
Forum veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 601
Thanks: 0
Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts
Likes: 0
Liked at 18 Times in 12 Posts
Rep Power: 0
rogleale is on a distinguished road
Re: Police intimidation of photographers?

Sorry about that last post, don't know what happened!
Good for him! There is too much attempted bullying by uniformed people nowadays. He took a very small risk, which many others of us would have taken, and the reaction was excessive.

The main points in all this are:
1. If the site management allow family snaps to be taken, they should instruct the security personnel of this.
2. They should employ security personnel with IQs of at least double figures, (not counting decimals).
3. The police should not lie to members of the public. If no suspicions of terrorist actions are held they can not delete pictures or confiscate cameras unless a court order is obtained.
4. At no time was he asked if he was the father of the girl, and was allowed to leave wth her, so obviously the security staff based their actions on the anti-terrorism regulations. Odd!
Al Quaida targetting an ice cream stall!

Roger
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 12-10-11
Fast Eddie Fast Eddie is offline
Canon Shooter
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Bonnybridge
Posts: 171
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Likes: 0
Liked at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
Fast Eddie is on a distinguished road
Re: Police intimidation of photographers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pol View Post
I read about that yesterday and TBH he was just asking for trouble. There were clear notices saying photography wasn't allowed on the premises and it seems he ignored them.

He was on private property, there were notices stating photography wasn't allowed so it's hardly surprising he was approached by a security official.


Pol
I've never seen them, unlike Cumbernauld shopping centre where they are on the doors, they must be hidden at Braehead.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 12-10-11
Graham_of_Rainham's Avatar
Graham_of_Rainham Graham_of_Rainham is offline
Forum veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Rainham Essex
Posts: 1,427
Thanks: 26
Thanked 40 Times in 36 Posts
Likes: 79
Liked at 57 Times in 46 Posts
Rep Power: 0
Graham_of_Rainham is on a distinguished road
Re: Police intimidation of photographers?

I believe that there has been a general relaxing of the "Rules" at these places over the last few months.

Bluewater near Dartford Kent used be be quite restrictive but now have the following statement in their "Guests Conduct"

"We encourage guests to enjoy their experience at Bluewater, including the taking of photographs during their visit. We reserve the right, however, to ask guests not to take film or pictures at Bluewater in the interests of the safety and enjoyment of other guests. "

Lakeside in Thurrock Essex, still has some notices up at the entrances to the car parks, however they have only just updated their "Code of Conduct" and there is no mention of Photography not being permitted

http://www.lakeside.uk.com/upload/ma...%20Conduct.pdf

The reality of the modern multi-media communication devices makes it virtually imposible to control and the flack that they get when they get it wrong, as seems to have happend on most of these encounters, is simply counterproductive.

I've done several shoots at shopping centers and other private spaces and have always had permission, it makes it so much easier and only takes a short while to sort out.
__________________
Graham
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 12-10-11
Barr1e's Avatar
Barr1e Barr1e is offline
Forum veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 3,183
Thanks: 372
Thanked 156 Times in 142 Posts
Likes: 634
Liked at 606 Times in 405 Posts
Rep Power: 0
Barr1e is on a distinguished road
Re: Police intimidation of photographers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham_of_Rainham View Post
I believe that there has been a general relaxing of the "Rules" at these places over the last few months.

Bluewater near Dartford Kent used be be quite restrictive but now have the following statement in their "Guests Conduct"

"We encourage guests to enjoy their experience at Bluewater, including the taking of photographs during their visit. We reserve the right, however, to ask guests not to take film or pictures at Bluewater in the interests of the safety and enjoyment of other guests. "

Lakeside in Thurrock Essex, still has some notices up at the entrances to the car parks, however they have only just updated their "Code of Conduct" and there is no mention of Photography not being permitted

http://www.lakeside.uk.com/upload/ma...%20Conduct.pdf

The reality of the modern multi-media communication devices makes it virtually imposible to control and the flack that they get when they get it wrong, as seems to have happend on most of these encounters, is simply counterproductive.

I've done several shoots at shopping centers and other private spaces and have always had permission, it makes it so much easier and only takes a short while to sort out.
Thanks Graham for the info.

Regards. Barr1e
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 25-10-11
chuffchuffbuff chuffchuffbuff is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Kent
Posts: 7
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Likes: 0
Liked at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
chuffchuffbuff is on a distinguished road
Re: Police intimidation of photographers?

The following is an extract from a counter terrorism document released by the Metropolitan Police prior to the Olympics:-

Security Guards
What action can and cannot be taken by security guards:
• They CAN approach a person that has been seen acting in
a suspicious manner and ask them to account for their
actions;
• They CANNOT stop or detain that person or prevent them
from leaving if they decline to answer;
• If part of the 'suspicious' behaviour involves the taking of
photographs, they do NOT have power to:
Stop a person from taking a photograph of anything or any
person in a public place;
Ask for any images taken be deleted;
Ask to view images taken;
Seize any camera or phone used to take any image;
• Powers to search and seize are ONLY available to a police
officer under S43 of the Terrorism Act 2000.
• If security personnel witness or are made aware of
suspicious activity they should dial 999, if the person is still
on scene;
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 04-11-11
factotum factotum is offline
Forum newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Likes: 0
Liked at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
factotum is on a distinguished road
Re: Police intimidation of photographers?

i was taking photo's in tokyo,two weeks ago outside a police station with the police looking on,they didn't seem to mind a bit. perhaps different countries have different ideas about taking photo's in public places,ron.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 04-11-11
Graham_of_Rainham's Avatar
Graham_of_Rainham Graham_of_Rainham is offline
Forum veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Rainham Essex
Posts: 1,427
Thanks: 26
Thanked 40 Times in 36 Posts
Likes: 79
Liked at 57 Times in 46 Posts
Rep Power: 0
Graham_of_Rainham is on a distinguished road
Exclamation Re: Police intimidation of photographers?

Worth a read (but only as it's something new) for "them" to take no notice of

http://www.bsia.co.uk/web_images/Sec..._guide_002.pdf
__________________
Graham
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 05-11-11
Pol's Avatar
Pol Pol is offline
Ancient Geek
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: West Kent, UK
Posts: 5,613
Thanks: 174
Thanked 68 Times in 63 Posts
Likes: 299
Liked at 101 Times in 88 Posts
Rep Power: 0
Pol is on a distinguished road
Thumbs up Re: Police intimidation of photographers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham_of_Rainham View Post
Worth a read (but only as it's something new) for "them" to take no notice of

http://www.bsia.co.uk/web_images/Sec..._guide_002.pdf
Well that's very clear ... assuming "they" can read and understand what they're reading.


Pol
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 05-11-11
Pops's Avatar
Pops Pops is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 4,255
Blog Entries: 2
Thanks: 7
Thanked 55 Times in 50 Posts
Likes: 10
Liked at 62 Times in 52 Posts
Rep Power: 0
Pops is on a distinguished road
Re: Police intimidation of photographers?

That's very useful to know Graham .... thanks
__________________
-------------------------
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
POLICE Support for models Graham_of_Rainham Eye of the camera 0 24-10-10 07:29 PM
New orders: The message to Police officers Graham_of_Rainham Did you hear about... 7 07-12-09 08:28 PM
Revised guidance regarding photography for police officers Ian General discussion 1 03-09-09 06:21 PM
Police and photographers rogleale General discussion 6 11-07-09 08:56 PM
Police RANT! coupekid Did you hear about... 25 24-10-06 01:32 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:59 PM.


© Digital Photography Now, 2001-2018, All rights reservedAd Management plugin by RedTyger