3 dSLR's from Oly this spring?

[yoshi]

not quite a new tidbit, maybe. a report says here today that the top of Oly told a Newspaper, Nikkei;

Oly plans to double its dSLR sales from 250 to 500 K next fiscal year which starts from April.

3 models to be introduced this spring.

The Nikkei interpretes these 3 models to be:
- a successor to E-1
- E-400 or its minor-changed version (so it will be globally available soon)
- a successor to E-330

,which are I think reasonable.

I wonder what Panasonic is going to do with the E-330 successor.
yoshi

[DTD]

Re: 3 dSLR's from Oly this spring?

Looking forward to the E-1 replacement, although I don't think I'll be in a position to buy one this year.

[Ian]

Re: 3 dSLR's from Oly this spring?

not quite a new tidbit, maybe. a report says here today that the top of Oly told a Newspaper, Nikkei;

Oly plans to double its dSLR sales from 250 to 500 K next fiscal year which starts from April.

3 models to be introduced this spring.

The Nikkei interpretes these 3 models to be:
- a successor to E-1
- E-400 or its minor-changed version (so it will be globally available soon)
- a successor to E-330

,which are I think reasonable.

I wonder what Panasonic is going to do with the E-330 successor.
yoshi

Hi Yoshi,

The E-330 is a nice camera - but it hasn't fully exploited the live view capabilities and it has a small image buffer. With live view, I'm hoping to see a live histogram and more accurate preview colour balance, so it can be used as a live white balance monitor. I also wonder if the secondary live view mode, using a view-only CCD and a semi-silvered mirror, is the way to go - we'll just have to see

Ian

[yoshi]

[Paul]

Re: 3 dSLR's from Oly this spring?

Hi All
How did you get the idea that the E330 was to be updated?

Hmmm... I agree that there'll probably be 3 new dSLRs... but I'd have said we'd see an E-3, a E410 and E510! Rumours of the names have been bouncing around the DPR Oly SLR forum now & again.

That would make sense to me... the new 'Pro' camera, the E-400 replacement 'E410' would be the world-wide model to replace the europe-only E400... and the E510 would be the 10MP version of the over 1 yr old E-500... the '10' from the number denoting the MP count!

That's what I'm expecting!

But I'd also think it possible to see 'live view' percolating into other non-E300/330 body shapes and for them to get rid of the E300/330 line if they can as the bottom end of the 4/3rds range is 'entry-level' heavy.

What's the main difference between the 330 and 500 and 400? It's basically the same firmware in a different body shape with that body having 1 unique selling point.
E400 = small,
E330 = live view,
E500 basic, good value-for-money camera.

There's scope for those 3 to be rolled into fewer 'lines'.

That's imho! :-)

[Ian]

Re: 3 dSLR's from Oly this spring?

Hi All
How did you get the idea that the E330 was to be updated? Hmmm... I agree that there'll probably be 3 new dSLRs put I'd have said E-3, E410 and E510! Rumours of the names have been bouncing around the DPR Oly SLR forum now & again.

That made sense to me... the new 'Pro' camera, the E-400 replacement 410 would be the world-wide model to replace the europe-only E400... and the 510 would be the 10MP version of the over 1 yr old E-500... the '10' from the number denoting the MP count!

That's what I'm expecting!

But I'd also think it possible to see 'live view' percolating into other non-E300/330 body shapes and them get rid of the E300/330 line if they can as the bottom end of the 4/3rds range is entry-level heavy.

What's the main difference between the 330 and 500 and 400? It's basically the same firmware in a different body shape that has 1 unique selling point. E400 + small, E330 = live view, E500 basic, good value-for-money camera. There's scope for those 3 to be rolled into fewer 'lines', imho.

That's imho! :-)

Hi Paul and welcome to DPNow!

The E-400 and E-500 are undeniably very similar. They both use the same family of Kodak sensors (albeit different resolutions) and sub-system/buffer. It's a little confusing that the more expensive E-400 has less external controls than the cheaper E-500 and that the lower resolution E-500 has more ISO noise than the higher resolution E-400, but the are indeed closely related.

I don't have any privileged information, but I do think live view will be a big selling point for Olympus this year. Could the E-400 be the last Olympus DSLR without live view? - it's an interesting proposition. Live view shouldn't automatically mean a lot of extra build expense - all compact digicams are live view after all. The electromechanical moving sensor image stabiliser is another interesting development from Olympus. Pentax has shown that this kind of feature needn't mean a big price premium either.

Let's leave the pro-spec model; a lot is already known, but much is also completely unknown. But it's been promised and we should see it at PMA in just 6 weeks.

So to the E-330. Although it shares a very similar user interface to the E-400/500, practically everything else is different; the sensor, the live view modes, the reflex system, etc. The buffer management is also more primitive than the E-400/500 and my guess is that it doesn't use the same ASIC as these two. The E-330 chassis is used by Panasonic and Leica, so it's not likely that it will be retired and there is room for a lot of improvement, so I think a revised and enhanced E-330 is very logical.

I use an E-330 a lot and I really miss the live view when using other DSLRs.

Ian

[yoshi]

Re: 3 dSLR's from Oly this spring?

Hi All
How did you get the idea that the E330 was to be updated?

Hmmm... I agree that there'll probably be 3 new dSLRs... but I'd have said we'd see an E-3, a E410 and E510!

Hi Paul, nice to listen to other voices. When we take into account the date of introduction of each model, your estimate is of course logical.
In Japan, E-500 is selling well, so I guess less needs for model change but this is just a simple guess. One drawback of E-500 seems the small viewfinder, so adding a live view finder is in that sense quite reasonable estimate IMO.
And E-400 is not introduced here, you know. In order to avoid possible cannibalization between E-400 and E-500, Oly will perhaps need some diferentiation between the two.

My personal interests are rather;
i) if or not Panasonic shows more comittment to the 4/3rds system. If they also introduce those 3 models, especially the flagship, Pany can be considered an important player in the 4/3rds group. At the moment, they have just half-comitted IMHO. - quite different from Sony's firm comittment to Alpha-mount.

ii) why 3 models at one time? - of course, it is mainly because Oly had postponed introduction of some modles in the past. But does it justify the 3 models introduction this spring? Do they want to got to the other extreme?

iii) of course, what sigma is going to do? - is another interest to me but they are extremely busy in final preparation of their SD-14 so most likely no 4/3rds body from them? Just some lenses?

what do you think?
yoshi

[Ian]

Re: 3 dSLR's from Oly this spring?

Hi Paul, nice to listen to other voices. When we take into account the date of introduction of each model, your estimate is of course logical.
In Japan, E-500 is selling well, so I guess less needs for model change but this is just a simple guess. One drawback of E-500 seems the small viewfinder, so adding a live view finder is in that sense quite reasonable estimate IMO.
And E-400 is not introduced here, you know. In order to avoid possible cannibalization between E-400 and E-500, Oly will perhaps need some diferentiation between the two.

My personal interests are rather;
i) if or not Panasonic shows more comittment to the 4/3rds system. If they also introduce those 3 models, especially the flagship, Pany can be considered an important player in the 4/3rds group. At the moment, they have just half-comitted IMHO. - quite different from Sony's firm comittment to Alpha-mount.

ii) why 3 models at one time? - of course, it is mainly because Oly had postponed introduction of some modles in the past. But does it justify the 3 models introduction this spring? Do they want to got to the other extreme?

iii) of course, what sigma is going to do? - is another interest to me but they are extremely busy in final preparation of their SD-14 so most likely no 4/3rds body from them? Just some lenses?

what do you think?
yoshi

Hi Yoshi, from my conversations with Panasonic people from Japan, I see a lot of enthusiasm for Four Thirds. Several Leica-branded lenses have already been announced, though these are mainly high-specification and likely to be expensive. I think the Lumix DMC-L1 and expensive Leica brand lenses do not fit Panasonic's general strategy of mass market sales, so I consider their early products as a kind of way of earning a reputation as a serious minded camera company, not just a consumer electronics company making cameras. Affordable and innovative models must surely be on the way - including Lumix-branded lenses, I would expect. Panasonic has also invested heavily in producing the live view sensor used in the L1, Leica Digilux 3 and the Olympus E-330.

With Sigma, it's harder to say, though many more of their lenses are being made available with the Four Thirds mount now. Their president has been quoted as saying that they will consider a Four Thirds mount camera, but the priority was to get the SD14 finished.

I'm very curious to see how Kodak fits into the future of Four Thirds. Can they ignore the DSLR market? They make most of the sensors in the Four Thirds family, but if live view is the future for Panasonic and Olympus, maybe they could make their own inexpensive Four Thirds consumer model, maybe based on the E-500?

Fujifilm is also associated with the Four Thirds standard, though we've heard next to nothing from them and, as far as I can see, they have not contributed anything to date.

Ian

[Paul]

Re: 3 dSLR's from Oly this spring?

[QUOTE=Ian;9618]Hi Paul and welcome to DPNow!
Hiya Ian
I'm actually a long time visitor who'd deleted the cookie cache and has had re-register as he couldn't remember his details.
The E-400 and E-500 are undeniably very similar. They both use the same family of Kodak sensors (albeit different resolutions) and sub-system/buffer. It's a little confusing that the more expensive E-400 has less external controls than the cheaper E-500 and that the lower resolution E-500 has more ISO noise than the higher resolution E-400, but the are indeed closely related.I don't have any privileged information, but I do think live view will be a big selling point for Olympus this year. Could the E-400 be the last Olympus DSLR without live view? - it's an interesting proposition. Live view shouldn't automatically mean a lot of extra build expense - all compact digicams are live view after all. The electromechanical moving sensor image stabiliser is another interesting development from Olympus. Pentax has shown that this kind of feature needn't mean a big price premium either.
Of course... I'd expect that in every Oly dSLR from now on. Remember the 'patience repaid many times comment' from the manager?

Oly are smart to do this... it turns every lens you have bought or will buy in future into an IS version overnight! I know they say 'lens based' is better as it can be tuned for the individual characteristics of particular lenses but... the body-based system is very economical (you only have to buy it once)

Let's leave the pro-spec model; a lot is already known, but much is also completely unknown. But it's been promised and we should see it at PMA in just 6 weeks.
Why? what do YOU know Ian? LOL I don't know squat about it! There's a guy on the DPR forum who's seen it and it seems to be, from reading his cryptic comments, a better version of the E1! I'll be disapointed if that is so.

I don't care for MP quantity as long as it has image quality by the bucket... and that includes high ISOs! [The sensor in the E400 supports pixel binning so maybe we'll see higher frame rates and better high ISO's with a smaller MP count due to this?]

I don't care for multipe focus points in SAF... but you need them in CAF and a method to opt between these points with your thumb. It needs a nipple/joystick/multi-pad before it needs a 'press a button and turn a dial! Without a easy way to control FP choice, you may as well stick with centre-point only... and then FP quantity means nothing anyway!

But the talk of a additional pro model above th E1 is very interesting! Except before they do that they need the technology to put in it! :-) [The guys who's seen the E3 says Oly have prototyped a 17 point AF module! I'm not saying that's what we'll see.. nor how it worked.. nor what 'pattern' they was in. But their R&D is trying!]

So to the E-330. Although it shares a very similar user interface to the E-400/500, practically everything else is different; the sensor, the live view modes, the reflex system, etc. The buffer management is also more primitive than the E-400/500 and my guess is that it doesn't use the same ASIC as these two. The E-330 chassis is used by Panasonic and Leica, so it's not likely that it will be retired and there is room for a lot of improvement, so I think a revised and enhanced E-330 is very logical.
Maybe... but if they can iplement LV 'my way' [LV sensor after the prism] we'll not NEED to see the 330 shape again!

It's that word 'if' again! LOL

I use an E-330 a lot and I really miss the live view when using other DSLRs.
Yes, LV got a bad rep bcos they implemented the modes in a clunky way... but I personally can't wait till I can frame using a screen and have a 100% accurate representation of WYSIWYG! Throw in a real-time pre-view h/gram of what you'll get 'post-shot' but presented 'pre-shot' and ''my name in Paul and I'm a live-view-aholic''

The best thig Oly did on the 330 was that articulating screen the worst thing about it is that lack of 'twist' to it... and I don't know what panny was thinking omitting a articulating screen from theirs?

Roll on Mar 4th! :-) Sorry it's such a long read! My bad!

[Paul]

Re: 3 dSLR's from Oly this spring?

Yoshi said "In Japan, E-500 is selling well, so I guess less needs for model change but this is just a simple guess. One drawback of E-500 seems the small viewfinder, so adding a live view finder is in that sense quite reasonable estimate IMO.
And E-400 is not introduced here, you know. In order to avoid possible cannibalization between E-400 and E-500, Oly will perhaps need some diferentiation between the two."
Wasn't that my point? That there's 3 low-end oly cameras, 4 if you count the 300, that have been essentially the same camera but with the one unique selling point.

The 300 was an 'all rounder', the 500 was a prismed version of that, the 330 offers LV in the same 3FPS for 4-5 RAW/ unlimited jpg buffer and the 400 is a very small version of the E500!

I believe if Oly can implement live view mode A in a prismed camera, we won't see the porro-mirrored shape again. (everyone said it was 'ugly' anyway)

Ian said "Hi Yoshi, from my conversations with Panasonic people from Japan, I see a lot of enthusiasm for Four Thirds. Several Leica-branded lenses have already been announced, though these are mainly high-specification and likely to be expensive. I think the Lumix DMC-L1 and expensive Leica brand lenses do not fit Panasonic's general strategy of mass market sales, so I consider their early products as a kind of way of earning a reputation as a serious minded camera company, not just a consumer electronics company making cameras. Affordable and innovative models must surely be on the way - including Lumix-branded lenses, I would expect. Panasonic has also invested heavily in producing the live view sensor used in the L1, Leica Digilux 3 and the Olympus E-330."I agree with that a lot. Panny joins the dSLR market and guess what names are in the same sentence as the newcomer? It's only two of the more reputables names in photographic optics... Leica and Olympus!

Talk about buying 'street cred'... panny have jumped in with both feet and are now virtually indistinguishable from two of the best known names in quality photography! That's not bad going!

I'd think panny are serious about 4/3rds.. they're the only one who's committed themselves into the standard with bodies, lenses and flash units that work 'system-wide'.

The good thing about 4/3rds is that any of the non-dSLR brands can produce a body for it and theres a ready made lens range out there for it!

[Hokuto]

Re: 3 dSLR's from Oly this spring?

Hi All
How did you get the idea that the E330 was to be updated?

Just a note: the original Japanese states that the three new models will be successors to the E-1, E-400, and E-330.

Best wishes.

[Ian]

Re: 3 dSLR's from Oly this spring?

Hi Hokuto and welcome to DPNow!

Yoshi also translated the news for us here

I'm curious to know if you think the E-400 will be significantly different - it's already pretty new?

Ian

[yoshi]

Re: 3 dSLR's from Oly this spring?

Just a note: the original Japanese states that the three new models will be successors to the E-1, E-400, and E-330.

Best wishes.

Hi Hokuto, yes, you are right and thanks for reminding me of it.
May I just add that the estimate is made by Nikkei and not specifically mentioned by the CEO, Mr. Kikuchi,in the interview. So I take it as an important but not the final information.

I also appreciate the link you gave, as I have not read it before.
The real original is, as you know, the article on Nikkei morning edition of Jan25th, as the site article properly refers to it. I also wanted to give a link to the original article here in the web but it was a paid site so I cannot.

When I think of the Four Thirds System, I often have to wonder why a theoretically superb sytem like this cannot be more widely accepted by the global markets. The year 2006 was apparently an unsatisfactory year for Olympus in terms of market share decline in dSLR (in Japan)- but a good year in the sense that Panasonic, Leica and Sigma joined in the 4/3rds group in a meaningful way.

yoshi

[Paul]

Re: 3 dSLR's from Oly this spring?

Thanks for clearing that up ... E410 & E510 anybody? :-)

Yoshi said: I often have to wonder why a theoretically superb sytem like this cannot be more widely accepted by the global markets.?

[Ian]

Re: 3 dSLR's from Oly this spring?

Thanks for clearing that up ... E410 & E510 anybody? :-)

Yoshi said: I often have to wonder why a theoretically superb sytem like this cannot be more widely accepted by the global markets.?

The sensor size issue is a red herring as the vertical dimension of a Four Thirds sensor is very close to the APS-C sensors in other DSLRs. The area ratio is magnified by the fact that the other sensors have a wider aspect ratio. But in any case, it's the photosite size that counts and the sizes of these on Four Thirds sensors are in the same ball bark as rival DSLR sensors of similar resolution. The sensitivity of Four Thirds sensors is way ahead of any compact or bridge-type digital camera.

That said, until the E-330 and the E-400, Four Thirds DSLRs did suffer from disproportionately noisy images. I believe this was because less noise reduction was applied and the image processing sub-system in earlier cameras was not as advanced as some of the rivals. The E-330 and, especially, the E-400, have gone some way to putting that right.

Ian