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Bearface 07-07-07 11:42 AM

Ok, place yer bets...
 
I'm going for Kimi to take pole at Silverstone today, followed by Lewis and then Massa, with Alonso in fourth.

For the race, I reckon Kimi will be fuelled short and the McLarens about three or four laps longer, so he'll need a similar start to the one he had in France to make the strategy work. However if he does (and his car is reliable), I think he'll take the race.

Please don't rain...........please :o

paul.r.w 07-07-07 12:18 PM

Re: Ok, place yer bets...
 
Now you're talking, come into my parlour said the spi..... ;)

I'll give you 7/4 on Raikkonen, 3/1 on Hamilton, 2/1 on Massa and 3/1 on Alonso to get pole. Or you could visit my companies website http://www.paddypower.com for some more interesting bets. :cool:

Bearface 07-07-07 02:35 PM

Re: Ok, place yer bets...
 
Well I got the 1st two rows right, if not the precise positions of the drivers on them... :rolleyes:

Brilliant result for Lewis though........he's definitely giving us Brits something to be proud of in sport for a change.

Ian 07-07-07 03:35 PM

Re: Ok, place yer bets...
 
First Brit pole at home since Damon in 1996 - great result and a fantastic performance from Lewis, though the first four are only separated by a third of a second...

Remains to be seen how much fuel the McLarens have compared to the Ferraris of course.

Ian

peter 07-07-07 04:50 PM

Re: Ok, place yer bets...
 
My money would go on lewis pitting first. I think the Ferrari's are well up for it this week they had a great test two weeks ago and they look fast on the long runs. It was nice to see that someone else remembers that there are other drivers on the track,I mean the woman they spoke to when they went out and did a talk to the people at the track.

Ian 08-07-07 11:35 PM

Re: Hamilton's inexperience showed through today
 
On the one hand, clearly, starting on pole, two places ahead of your team mate and finishing third, behind your team mate, was not the result Lewis Hamilton should have delivered. On the other, it's easy to forget how inexperienced he is and he still managed to finish on the podium, maintaining that unbeaten record - now 9 races in a row.

Alonso, with the benefit of his experience, did a better job than Hamilton this weekend, but Ferrari - at least Raikkonen's one, did best of all, though Massa was on fire having started from the back. I think it would have been too close to call between the two Ferrari drivers if Massa's car hadn't stalled on the starting grid.

McLaren are just marginally off the Ferrari pace at the moment and should, judging by their record there, maintain their advantage at the Nurburgring in two weeks.

Ian

Bearface 09-07-07 12:50 AM

Re: Hamilton's inexperience showed through today
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian (Post 18684)
On the one hand, clearly, starting on pole, two places ahead of your team mate and finishing third, behind your team mate, was not the result Lewis Hamilton should have delivered. On the other, it's easy to forget how inexperienced he is and he still managed to finish on the podium, maintaining that unbeaten record - now 9 races in a row.

In fairness to Hamilton, I don't think he had the car under him this weekend that he's been used to in F1 so far, whereas Alonso certainly did. Sometimes the set ups for a given weekend just don't work properly and in Lewis's case, this weekend was one of those occasions.

On the subject of Lewis's record in F1, well I don't think there's been a driver in the history of the sport who's achieved so many poles, race wins and podium finishes in their first season (let alone half a season...) as Hamilton, so he has very little to worry about. And he's still leading the championship by an impressive margin...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian (Post 18684)
Alonso, with the benefit of his experience, did a better job than Hamilton this weekend, but Ferrari - at least Raikkonen's one, did best of all, though Massa was on fire having started from the back. I think it would have been too close to call between the two Ferrari drivers if Massa's car hadn't stalled on the starting grid.

Alonso was clearly more comfortable in his car this weekend than Hamilton, but discounting his nifty pit strategy during the first round of stops, he (Alonso) did very little to impress. He's undoubtedly experienced and he has a safe, consistent style which works when he has a great package under him, but he isn't in the same league for pure skill and racecraft as Lewis and Kimi.

The same applies to Massa. He had a superb car under him this weekend and starting from the pitlane gave him a huge incentive to push, but all he really did was pass slower, less capable cars before hitting a brick wall with Kubica in the BMW, which is known to be half a second a lap slower than the Ferrari F2007 around Silverstone. He certainly worked hard, but given the advantage his car had over the opposition, I don't think he did anything too special and he certainly wasn't (or isn't) in Kimi's league for speed or outright skill.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian (Post 18684)
McLaren are just marginally off the Ferrari pace at the moment and should, judging by their record there, maintain their advantage at the Nurburgring in two weeks.

McLaren's development pace will ensure that they'll be as competitive or more so than Ferrari very soon, if not in time for the Nurburgring race. However if nothing changes in the next fortnight, I'd certainly put my money on Kimi and Massa regaining a little more championship ground :D

Ian 09-07-07 07:45 AM

Re: Hamilton's inexperience showed through today
 
Hmmmm, will you ever give Alonso or Massa some credit when it's earned, Tim? :)

Alonso didn't make a mistake in the race and there was no indication from McLaren that either car had a technical problem. Alonso simply drove a better race this weekend and a) Lewis Hamilton didn't make the most of his tyres and b) he had a poor pit s top. Alonso's qualifying was, in hindsight, a great effort with three laps more fuel onboard than Hamilton.

Meanwhile, OK, Raikkonen won the race and full credit to him for that, but he should have been on pole and admitted that his qualifying mistake at Woodcote gifted pole to Hamilton.

Massa can't have been happy with his qualifying performance, but wouldn't you have been praising a performance of last to 5th if it had been by achieved a certain recently retired driver?

It seems to me that Raikkonen basically did what he needed to do and he had the equipment to do it and no bad luck in the race. He didn't pass anyone on the road in the race, though, so it's a bit mean to criticise Massa for failing to pass Kubica's BMW after passing most of the field up to that point.

Silverstone showed to me that neither Alonso nor Massa can be discounted...

Ian

Bearface 09-07-07 12:31 PM

Re: Hamilton's inexperience showed through today
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian (Post 18688)
Hmmmm, will you ever give Alonso or Massa some credit when it's earned, Tim? :)

Yes, and I have done so here before today. However neither of them has the talent of Raikonnen or Hamilton; they're just solid, dependable drivers who can (mainly by virtue of their intelligence and the cars they're given to drive) pull off some very impressive performances. But they're not in the same league as their team-mates...

Now.......will you ever give Raikonnen the credit he deserves when he earns it..? :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian (Post 18688)
Alonso didn't make a mistake in the race and there was no indication from McLaren that either car had a technical problem. Alonso simply drove a better race this weekend and a) Lewis Hamilton didn't make the most of his tyres and b) he had a poor pit s top. Alonso's qualifying was, in hindsight, a great effort with three laps more fuel onboard than Hamilton.

There were plenty of drivers in the race who didn't make mistakes, but there is far more to a great driver than someone who doesn't make mistakes.......and in any case Alonso has made a great deal of driver errors this season. He drove a solid enough race, but he did absolutely nothing to impress.........nothing at all. As for his qualifying performance, well again it was nothing spectacular.

I didn't suggest that Hamilton had technical problems, I said that he didn't have the set up right. This happens to the best drivers occasionally and once they're out on the track for qualifying, there's very little they can do all weekend to change a fundamentally unsuitable chassis. Sure, they have to take some of the blame for that, but basically Lewis didn't have a car he could race with, so consequently he lost some ground. What's good for qualifying can often be an issue in the race, so Lewis just has to put this weekend down to experience.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian (Post 18688)
Meanwhile, OK, Raikkonen won the race and full credit to him for that, but he should have been on pole and admitted that his qualifying mistake at Woodcote gifted pole to Hamilton.

He probably lost a couple of tenths at Woodcote, but in fairness he put in some incredible (and consistent) laps in the race and went on to win quite easily. If Alonso had done the same, you'd have been singing his praises from the rooftops, but as it's Kimi (Schuey's replacement at Ferrari...), your acknowledgment of his accomplishment is somewhat muted. Fair enough... ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian (Post 18688)
Massa can't have been happy with his qualifying performance, but wouldn't you have been praising a performance of last to 5th if it had been by achieved a certain recently retired driver?

Ian, Massa had a vastly superior car to those he passed in the race. I'm not suggesting it was a poor performance, but what I'm saying is that when he caught up with comparable cars to his own, he suddenly didn't have any answers. On the occasions Schuey came from the back of the field, he did so against competitive rivals and he was mesmerising to watch.........Massa (and Alonso for that matter) are just not of that standard.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian (Post 18688)
Silverstone showed to me that neither Alonso nor Massa can be discounted...


Raikonnen and Hamilton are the best drivers in F1. They're going to have bad days as all the greats have done before them, but they're still the best. The likes of Alonso and Massa are driving similarly competitive cars, but they're just not as talented and anyone who keeps a close eye on sector times and pure technique can see that. Unless Lewis and Kimi experience some bad luck or they make a heap of mistakes, you're not going to see Alonso and Massa beating them on equal terms.

peter 09-07-07 07:11 PM

Re: Ok, place yer bets...
 
Well Massa let me down yesterday. Maybe it was a problem with the car but we can do with all the points we can get. Having said that I still think he had a great drive starting from the pits to end up 5th. Like Ian said yes if someone else had done the same drive we would be jumping for joy. The real problem is lewis is now 12 points ahead of Alosno and he is just so consistent that it is going to be hard to catch him. If the other top 3 keep picking up wins thats ok but not if he is right behind them. Ferrari really do need some one, two's and maybe even a dof from lewis. Do not get me wrong I will not give up till its over. Oh and it is nice to see that Kimi is back on form, its be a long time coming.

Ian 09-07-07 08:37 PM

Re: Hamilton's inexperience showed through today
 
Didn't I give Kimi full credit for the win? He had the car and he did exactly what he needed to do - end of story. It wasn't a race of glory, but he didn't really have the chance to do that anyway. I certainly wasn't taking anything away from him. What I was trying to say was that, given the circumastances, Alonso got the most out of his car and the reward was 2nd, probably the best he could have achieved, so a job well done, especially with qualifying (4 laps more fuel than Hamilton (not 3 as I originally said) and 2 more laps than Raikkonen. Lewis was clearly not on top of his car all weekend, but pole and to lead the race for the first stint wasn't too bad and great for the home crowd, but for the championship, Alonso definitely did the better job last weekend. No shame in that for Lewis - as long as he doesn't make a habit of it, which I hope he doesn't. And I don't think Massa had a perfect lap in qualifying, - indeed he should be marked down for that, no getting away from that, but the grid stall wasn't his fault and knowing how good his car was, he should really have been right up there with Kimi and I believe it wouldn't have been nearly as easy a victory with Massa in contention.

Ian

Ian 09-07-07 08:41 PM

Re: Ok, place yer bets...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by peter (Post 18736)
Well Massa let me down yesterday. Maybe it was a problem with the car but we can do with all the points we can get. Having said that I still think he had a great drive starting from the pits to end up 5th. Like Ian said yes if someone else had done the same drive we would be jumping for joy. The real problem is lewis is now 12 points ahead of Alosno and he is just so consistent that it is going to be hard to catch him. If the other top 3 keep picking up wins thats ok but not if he is right behind them. Ferrari really do need some one, two's and maybe even a dof from lewis. Do not get me wrong I will not give up till its over. Oh and it is nice to see that Kimi is back on form, its be a long time coming.

I don't think Massa let anyone down - a gremlin let him down on the grid. It's practically impossible to stall a F1 car through clumsiness these days. There was an electronic glitch and that was that. But at least we had some fun watching him carve through the field.

Yes, McLaren still managed to extend their championship lead despite, what they would feel, was a lacklustre weekend for them. Ferrari definitely need to find more consistency and before the performance pendulum swings back McLaren's way.

Ian


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