snob

[JonMikal]

http://jonmikal.smugmug.com/photos/92914533-M.jpg

[Pops]

Very apt title gave me a chuckle.
Surprised you left that unsightly pipe in bottom left corner. It looks old and doesn't fit in.

[JonMikal]

thanks Pops. :)
perhaps i should have cropped closer. i'm not into PS'ing much.

[Stephen]

thanks Pops. :)
perhaps i should have cropped closer. i'm not into PS'ing much.

Cropping would have spoilt the frame you have obviously been at pains to create. Personally its not a problem for me, but if the crop and clone brigade insist, then maybe cloning it out would be the answer ;)

Jon I like your image, and feel the mono treatment works well in the context of your title *LOL Colour would have shifted the emphasis and eye no doubt

[Tinka]

Hi Jonmikal,
I like the image, lighting and reflections are great, love the mono treatment too.

[Archangel]

Hi Jon,

I did much photography of the specific theme (fashion) and my comments to your attempt have as follows:

1. Whenever you take photos from some distance it is nice to zoom to the theme and exclude any frames around, otherwise they look like still boxed photos.

2. Always use some angle of taking these specific type of photos to avoid ghosting from straight light reflections to the camera lens.

3. Most of the times these photos describe the theme better in color.

I include 2 photo samples. The first one is from far, but zoomed to the theme and the second from close and both taken with some angle.
If you need any further assistance for the specific type of photography drop me a message.


http://dpnow.com/galleries/data/594/Modeling_1.jpg




http://dpnow.com/galleries/data/594/Modeling_2.jpg





Regards


George

[Stephen]

Hi Jon,


1. Whenever you take photos from some distance it is nice to zoom to the theme and exclude any frames around, otherwise they look like still boxed photos.

Regards


George

I suspect Jon went to some lengths to frame the contents of the shop window as he did George.

Make no mistake he is an accomplished photographer. You should check out his website for confirmation of that *LOL

[Archangel]

I suspect Jon went to some lengths to frame the contents of the shop window as he did George.

Make no mistake he is an accomplished photographer. You should check out his website for confirmation of that *LOL


Hi Stephen,

I don't doubt for John's ability to take nice photos. I only commented on the specific photo that is posted in the photo critique section. If I see a different photo, I will comment different. I approach the term "Photo Critique" as a critique to a specific photo and not a critique to a specific person's abilities to take photos.
Furthermore, I just offered to help if I can be of any further assistance to the specific photographic theme which I did a lot in the past and do accasionally still now whenever it happens.

For which John's website are you talking about?
Paste me the link to visited if you have it, (or John whenever he reads these posts) because on DPNow galleries I see only 2 photos listed by John.


Regards


John

[Pol]

Nice one! I suppose she considers herself 'a cut above' - possibly because her dress costs a few $$$ more. :D

I'd classify this one as 'humorous' - maybe even 'street'. I'd definitely leave everything just as it is a true representation of something that caught the eye and amuses a passer-by.

Pol

[Stephen]

Hi Stephen,

I don't doubt for John's ability to take nice photos. I only commented on the specific photo that is posted in the photo critique section. If I see a different photo, I will comment different. I approach the term "Photo Critique" as a critique to a specific photo and not a critique to a specific person's abilities to take photos.
Furthermore, I just offered to help if I can be of any further assistance to the specific photographic theme which I did a lot in the past and do accasionally still now whenever it happens.

For which John's website are you talking about?
Paste me the link to visited if you have it, (or John whenever he reads these posts) because on DPNow galleries I see only 2 photos listed by John.


Regards


John

George, I don't really want to enter into a pointless argument over this. However it seemed to me that you were infact not offereing any critique at all on Jons specific photo, rather you were just offering general advice.

My point was that you implied that he should zoom in the subject in order to eliminate the frame he had created with the window surround. Indeed because he had clearly cropped the image, it empahsised what he had done.

It seems that Jon has made his website private so there is no point me giving you a link. A pity because he has some great photos on there. :)

[Archangel]

George, I don't really want to enter into a pointless argument over this. However it seemed to me that you were infact not offereing any critique at all on Jons specific photo, rather you were just offering general advice.

My point was that you implied that he should zoom in the subject in order to eliminate the frame he had created with the window surround. Indeed because he had clearly cropped the image, it empahsised what he had done.

It seems that Jon has made his website private so there is no point me giving you a link. A pity because he has some great photos on there. :)


Hi Stephen,

I don't see anything as argument in the forums. I see it as a discussion, maybe sometimes intense with totally opposite opinions but still in inside of discussion 's limits.

I didn't offer any specific critique on the photo, because John except posting the photo, he didn't write anything in terms of what he wants the critique to be focused around.

In this case and without any specific comments on the photo he posted, I have to assume in what I should comment on that photo.
I didn't want to write specific points like (pipe on the bottom left should be excluded, metal frame around the dolls shows considerable barrel distortion and really has no meaning of being there, there is no detail at all of the main theme, which are the dolls at least in this size, no texture details, e.t.c.

So, instead of writing all these I wrote what I think it is the best way to take photos of this type, since a different approach of themes like that can correct all these deficiencies that this specific type of photo has.

I repeat though in order to avoid any misunderstandings.
I approach each section of the forum, strictly of what this section represents and not in personal level. My comments (strict most of the times, because I think that way is the best way to offer something to the person who asks for comments or seeks advice) have to do with the photos posted for critique and not with the person who took the photo. I don't judge general photographic ability of a person. I judge specifically the photo only.


Now tell me really. If John had zoomed a little more, would he have avoid at least the pipe and the metal frame's barrel distortion if not captured a little more texture detail on the dolls and their clothes? :)

But anyway. Since John didn't post any comments along with his photo and of what exactly intended to do or in what he wanted other users comments focused on, can I be considered wrong of offering some further advice if needed, for photographing the specific type of theme, which I did a lot in the past?

P.S. Stephen please give some serious consideration to this: My native language is not English. Sometimes the way foreigners people write English might not be syntactically OK, giving a different impression to someone whose native language is English. The same is like if you were trying to speak to me Greek using English syntax, that in Greek would sound strange or different from your intention of passing a specific meaning.


Regards


George

[Ian]

Hi George, I think your advice is logical but only as an alternative view - it's a choice and preference.

Jon's picture is, to my mind anyway, framed and composed with a lot of thought and care and I personally think it works very well. The pipe in the bottom left corner doesn't bother me and the framed shop window the way it is presented is fine for this picture. There is nothing wrong with your preference, but I think that Jon was working to achieve something different.

Ian

[Ian]

Hi Stephen,

I don't see anything as argument in the forums. I see it as a discussion, maybe sometimes intense with totally opposite opinions but still in inside of discussion 's limits.

I didn't offer any specific critique on the photo, because John except posting the photo, he didn't write anything in terms of what he wants the critique to be focused around.

In this case and without any specific comments on the photo he posted, I have to assume in what I should comment on that photo.
I didn't want to write specific points like (pipe on the bottom left should be excluded, metal frame around the dolls shows considerable barrel distortion and really has no meaning of being there, there is no detail at all of the main theme, which are the dolls at least in this size, no texture details, e.t.c.

So, instead of writing all these I wrote what I think it is the best way to take photos of this type, since a different approach of themes like that can correct all these deficiencies that this specific type of photo has.

I repeat though in order to avoid any misunderstandings.
I approach each section of the forum, strictly of what this section represents and not in personal level. My comments (strict most of the times, because I think that way is the best way to offer something to the person who asks for comments or seeks advice) have to do with the photos posted for critique and not with the person who took the photo. I don't judge general photographic ability of a person. I judge specifically the photo only.


Now tell me really. If John had zoomed a little more, would he have avoid at least the pipe and the metal frame's barrel distortion if not captured a little more texture detail on the dolls and their clothes? :)

But anyway. Since John didn't post any comments along with his photo and of what exactly intended to do or in what he wanted other users comments focused on, can I be considered wrong of offering some further advice if needed, for photographing the specific type of theme, which I did a lot in the past?

P.S. Stephen please give some serious consideration to this: My native language is not English. Sometimes the way foreigners people write English might not be syntactically OK, giving a different impression to someone whose native language is English. The same is like if you were trying to speak to me Greek using English syntax, that in Greek would sound strange or different from your intention of passing a specific meaning.


Regards


George

Yes I think George makes a good point about language here - goodness knows what nuances would be carried by my schoolboy French if I tried to post on a French language forum :(

Ian

[Archangel]

Hi George, I think your advice is logical but only as an alternative view - it's a choice and preference.

Jon's picture is, to my mind anyway, framed and composed with a lot of thought and care and I personally think it works very well. The pipe in the bottom left corner doesn't bother me and the framed shop window the way it is presented is fine for this picture. There is nothing wrong with your preference, but I think that Jon was working to achieve something different.

Ian

Hi Ian,

I really cannot assume myself what John was trying to do, since no comments are provided by John, just because I don't want to assume something which was not his intention.
By looking at the shot as is and by not having any comments provided, I made my own assumption of how a shot like this should look.
It would be very enlighting and I'm curious to know John's intension and what he was trying to achieve with this photo.
Hope he makes a post for that sometimes later, because I was also somewhat confused with the title "snob"


Regards


George

[Ian]

Hi Ian,

I really cannot assume myself what John was trying to do, since no comments are provided by John, just because I don't want to assume something which was not his intention.
By looking at the shot as is and by not having any comments provided, I made my own assumption of how a shot like this should look.
It would be very enlighting and I'm curious to know John's intension and what he was trying to achieve with this photo.
Hope he makes a post for that sometimes later, because I was also somewhat confused with the title "snob"


Regards


George

One of the mannequins (a mannequin is a model human figure for showing clothes in a shop window or in a shop) has its head adjusted in a pose that most people would regard as being a 'snob' - someone who rudely looks down on the manners or actions of others as being below their own standards. This usually applies to rich people disapproving of the lifestyles of poorer people.

So the focus of the picture is on the 'snob' mannequin and its relationship to the others in the window display. The shiny metal window surround is attractive me. You are right in that there is some bowing (barreling) of the sides and this could have been corrected, but as the focus is elsewhere, it doesn't bother me too much.

I'm very much in favour of the content and message of a picture being more important than technical quality. I'd rather have a technically imperfect picture that is interesting than a technically perfect one that is boring.

Ian

[Archangel]

One of the mannequins (a mannequin is a model human figure for showing clothes in a shop window or in a shop) has its head adjusted in a pose that most people would regard as being a 'snob' - someone who rudely looks down on the manners or actions of others as being below their own standards. This usually applies to rich people disapproving of the lifestyles of poorer people.

So the focus of the picture is on the 'snob' mannequin and its relationship to the others in the window display. The shiny metal window surround is attractive me. You are right in that there is some bowing (barreling) of the sides and this could have been corrected, but as the focus is elsewhere, it doesn't bother me too much.

I'm very much in favour of the content and message of a picture being more important than technical quality. I'd rather have a technically imperfect picture that is interesting than a technically perfect one that is boring.

Ian


Hi Ian,

I'm glad you explained what is the snob in this photo.
I think that now there is even more necessity for this photo to have been taken from closer as the mannequin's head is looking too much upwards (due to probably mannequin's construnction imperfecture since the snob look needs the head to be positioned slightly looking up and not up in the sky) and looked to me more than a mannequin's head misplacement than a snob face.
Even without the metal frame we could still understand that these are mannequins in a store, but we could better distinguish the "snob" feeling.
Also usually emotions or feelings are captured from closer distances and with the subject isolated from the rest of the things that distract with the emotion/feeling. For me the three mannequins heads with the store background could do the job perfectly without including in the frame unnecessary objects.

Though different opinions of the specific theme and how it should be approached are still considerable.


""I'm very much in favour of the content and message of a picture being more important than technical quality. I'd rather have a technically imperfect picture that is interesting than a technically perfect one that is boring.""

I agree, but this is the 2nd best choice. There is another one which is the 1st best choice *chr



Regards


George

[Ian]

Hi Ian,

I'm glad you explained what is the snob in this photo.
I think that now there is even more necessity for this photo to have been taken from closer as the mannequin's head is looking too much upwards (due to probably mannequin's construnction imperfecture since the snob look needs the head to be positioned slightly looking up and not up in the sky) and looked to me more than a mannequin's head misplacement than a snob face.
Even without the metal frame we could still understand that these are mannequins in a store, but we could better distinguish the "snob" feeling.
Also usually emotions or feelings are captured from closer distances and with the subject isolated from the rest of the things that distract with the emotion/feeling. For me the three mannequins heads with the store background could do the job perfectly without including in the frame unnecessary objects.

Though different opinions of the specific theme and how it should be approached are still considerable.


""I'm very much in favour of the content and message of a picture being more important than technical quality. I'd rather have a technically imperfect picture that is interesting than a technically perfect one that is boring.""

I agree, but this is the 2nd best choice. There is another one which is the 1st best choice *chr



Regards


George

Hi George, I respect your opinion, but it's just that - a personal opinion. Jon is a very experienced and accomplished photographer and this picture works very well as it is, in my opinion. I think you need to be a bit careful about promoting your alternative suggestion. Critique is one thing, but being critical when it is a matter of artistic opinion rather than plain fact could be construed as being unhelpful - even though of course I believe you are trying to be helpful.

The artistic side of a picture is very subjective - some will like it and some will not. I think in this case you are in the minority, but I respect your right to make your case. Just don't over do it :)

Ian

[Josh Bear]

Hi,
The picture reminds me of a lift with its door open and the people inside tell me all sorts of things so staright away the picture got my attention. What had gone on in the lift? who had been talking? Had there been an argument?

This is one of the things that i love about photography i.e. pictures can mean different things to different people.

Best Regards

Josh

[JonMikal]

i'm very sorry for all the confusion here. i suppose i should have offered up a bit of an explanation, but i was hoping to get gut reactions from you all. for me, it allows viewers to have full access on critique...not just what "i" think needs changing. it's very interesting to see the everyone's take on this image. thank you for your comments and suggestions. :)

for future posts, am i required to provide an explanation?