View Full Version : B&W Old School Photography
Im setting myself a challenge for the next week starting tommorow, it would be nice if you all joined in but I wont be offended if you dont.
I love b&w and and grainyness and ruffness of old style photography, so Im going to fit my 50mm lens on my d200, set it to b&w only and crank up the iso, and see what happens:\
The idea is to upload an untouched straight from the camera shot a day for the next week.
Think of it as modern tech entwinned with old style.
If anybody has any other idea's to add to the challenge that would be great, also I think most compacts have a b&w mode so theres no excuses:D
cheers
Ash
pewidane
19-10-08, 11:54 AM
From my home today.Panasonic DMC FZ 28.1600 asa :eek: .Black and white.
http://dpnow.com/galleries//data//500/P1000408.jpg
http://dpnow.com/galleries//data//500/P1000406.jpg
There are some quality here in the shadows (lack of sharpness).( like a pinhole camera)
Good challenge Ash.
Pedar. I just love to see inside your home. Even in black and white your decor is so to my taste. I have always liked Scandinavian furniture with the clean clear lines and the ubiquitous candles.
Really good Starter for this challenge.
I agree, I really like the first shot pedar, you have beaten me to start my own challenge, well done and Im glad somebody else is joining in:D,
Im just about to load pics onto pc and resize, then ill pop a couple on here.
Ash.
First one reminds me of watching snooker on telly as a kid on the old b&w tv, why did we bother, I used to think that the ref missed half of the foul's*LOL
'he's hit the wrong colour, no he hasn't, oh yes he has, dohhhhh whats happening!
http://dpnow.com/galleries/data//500/snooker.jpg (http://dpnow.com/galleries/showphoto.php/photo/13808)
Thomas practicing his words.
These are both iso 1600, everything set to normal or off and straight from the camera, resized to post. I could get used to this, no faffing in photoshop*LOL
Im out and about tommorow so hopefully get some outdoor landscapy type shots.
http://dpnow.com/galleries/data//500/writing.jpg (http://dpnow.com/galleries/showphoto.php/photo/13809)
pewidane
19-10-08, 09:00 PM
This picture was made in color,printed in color,scanned and made in mono to get it more dramatic and dirty. :D
http://dpnow.com/galleries//data//500/IMG_0006-copy-trav.jpg
Stephen
19-10-08, 10:17 PM
Mmmm, I'm glad you have shown a B/W conversion Peder, as I questioned having to do it in camera. Was there a reason for this Ash? I've shot about 1000 shots over the last 3 days, and the majority were at iso 1600, but they were all in colour so I felt as though that eliminated me
Bob Ross
20-10-08, 04:18 PM
Hi Ash,
This is a marvelous idea. B&W out of the camera is one of my own perversions. I think in camera B&W is an art, one without the PP safety net. I think the limitations that you have imposed are also going to be educational for those, like me, who are PP compusive. This is like the old days when you had one chance to get it right or close enough to right to fix it in the dark room. It certainly teach you about metering and your camera's meter system.
The ones that I offer here are done with an E-3, ZD50, mono/orange filter, Sharpening +1, contrast +1, resized and sharened to offset downsizing softness.
Bob
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Nice one pedar, very ruff n ready which suits the content spot on, although vearing away from the initial brief Im still glad you shared the shot for us all to see.
By all means Stephen share some shots, rules are there to be broken I suppose*LOL
The strict rules I set myself I am going to stick to but Ide love to see anybody's b&w conversions just see if you can explain what tweeks you have done, or if anybody wants to join in at any time using the rules I set myself thats also fine, even if you just post 1 pic all week, it does'nt matter, have some fun:D
Thanks for joining in Bob, and I love your fire hydrant, bet it would not have looked as good in colour;)
Ok second day, and from the look of this morning (very dull)I did'nt have a clue what I was going to shoot today, but I dropped lucky while I was working in Ponty, the races were on, so I just parked up and went for a wonder, in my dinner break of coarse:rolleyes:
Never been to the races before, or even watched or anything so I was pretty chuffed to get the oportunity of some shots.
same again d200, 50mm lens, manual exposure, b&w in camera & no photoshoppin only resizing to post.
http://dpnow.com/galleries/data//500/Races.jpg (http://dpnow.com/galleries/showphoto.php/photo/13835)
Think its airborne this beauty!
http://dpnow.com/galleries/data//500/Races_2.jpg (http://dpnow.com/galleries/showphoto.php/photo/13836)
Here's my take on an in camera jobbie. Sorry it's not black and white, but it was taken last year. Just as I was trying out my sepia mode this bloke decided to do his daily dozen.*LOL
Anyway, still got my pot on my leg for another 5 weeks so it's not too easy to get out to take pics.
http://dpnow.com/galleries/data//635/Nixe_Palace_Cala_Mayor.jpg (http://dpnow.com/galleries/showphoto.php/photo/13845)
Bob Ross
21-10-08, 04:20 AM
Ok second day, and from the look of this morning (very dull)I did'nt have a clue what I was going to shoot today, but I dropped lucky while I was working in Ponty, the races were on, so I just parked up and went for a wonder, in my dinner break of coarse:rolleyes:
Never been to the races before, or even watched or anything so I was pretty chuffed to get the oportunity of some shots.
same again d200, 50mm lens, manual exposure, b&w in camera & no photoshoppin only resizing to post.
Hi Ash,
What metering mode were you using? The reason that I asked is that I had some "non-qualifiers" where I underexposed. It only took a one click correction in my levels tool, but that is PPing. I am using center weighted metering and sometimes get it confused. Like yours mine needed the white point adjusted. Here is what your shot looks like "one clicked".
Bob
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Hey Bob, the exif says pattern but I only ever use spot and centre weighted, so I suppose centre weighted comes into the pattern category.
I am aware that these shots Im posting are not technically perfect but I felt this was going to be the case with my shots anyway:(
Like I feel that these race shots are slightly underexposed, But I no that by habit I always slightly underexpose because I no its better than the other way round, and In my mind Ive always got the safety net of Ps!
I suppose an exersize like this could potentially show somebody what they need to work on with their technique.
Its all good stuff Bob, post some more shots!
cheers
Ash.
I suppose under the circumstances Audrey we can let you sneek a sepia one in:)
Lovely scene, I bet you would have boosted the contrast on this one!
Bob Ross
21-10-08, 06:06 PM
Hi Ash,
One thing that I discovered is that My E-3 decided to undo one of my dial programs without telling me :confused: it was the one that controled EV setting. I have been shooting without chimping, so the occational mis-exposure will happen much like the old days. I agree that Audrey's sepia qualifies and monochrome.
Here are a couple from yesterday and one "unqualified" that I liked.
Bob
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Lovely set, looks like you had a nice sunny day for it, think first one is me favourite.
Keep em comin Bob!
Nothing as exciting as yesterday Im afraid, to be honest I did forget and have just taken these of my bike:\
Wopped the iso back up on these,1600, I dont think the grain is half as noticeable as it would have been in colour.
http://dpnow.com/galleries/data//500/Pedal_power.jpg (http://dpnow.com/galleries/showphoto.php/photo/13860)
Another pedal power pic!
http://dpnow.com/galleries/data//500/Pedal_Power_2.jpg (http://dpnow.com/galleries/showphoto.php/photo/13861)
Haven't logged in for a couple of days (I'd got a couple of days off at the end of last week and didn't get back here till Sunday late) so don't have one from this week as yet... after a couple of days away I kind of left the camera at home - on purpose.
So this is one I took on my travels - straight out of camera, although it is a conversion. The highlights were so blown I converted it to monotone when I was processing the RAW image - but it hasn't been touched by photoshop, hope it'll be allowed.
http://dpnow.com/galleries/data//928/medium/IMG_4632_F-Abbey-web-mono.jpg
Good one caz, looks a familiar place, is it kirkstall abbey in leeds?
what cam/lens have you got?
Thanks for that Ash - I've got a Canon 400d and had the standard 18-55 kit lens on at the time. I can't see that the exif data has come through, but it was 1/20 at f5, iso 800. It was about 5.30 p.m. when I took it and the sun was setting - unfortunately the gates shut at 6 and I was chucked out!
It's at Fountains Abbey, near Ripon - way off the my usual stamping ground ;)
Still uploading and editing.... since I'd got there late on the Thursday night, went back and went round the water garden on Friday before joining the traffic jams at Wetherby :(
Just had a thought - uploaded a black n white last week which I meant to put up for critique but forgot... This was taken in a gothic cemetery down the road from where I work. It was shot in black and white, as I wanted the monotone horse against the background of leaves.
Hope you think it works...
http://dpnow.com/galleries/data//928/IMG_4523_edited-1.jpg (http://dpnow.com/galleries/showphoto.php/photo/13694)
Yeah a nicely blown background there, although the horses head could have maybe been more to the left of the frame so it was not so central I think, just a thought!
Right then, whats this day 4 :eek: was in leeds today so I made my way to Kirkstall Abbey, inspired by caz's ruin shot I thought yeah, ruin's always look good in b&w;)
This one I used built in flash just to try and expose the stonework a bit more,
Im very pleased with the result, cant wait to have a play with it in ps though, but for this exersize you get to see it straight from the sensor:D
http://dpnow.com/galleries/data//500/Abbey_1.jpg (http://dpnow.com/galleries/showphoto.php/photo/13887)
I just love the shadow this was casting and Im really chuffed I got the stonework inside exposed too.
http://dpnow.com/galleries/data//500/Abbey_2.jpg (http://dpnow.com/galleries/showphoto.php/photo/13888)
Who are you calling a ruin? Careful young lad...
Thanks for this assignment Ash, it's been interesting. I particularly like your first shot of the abbey - the way the eye is led into the photo, which is sharp and with good contrast.
The horse is somewhat central, but he was placed that way to hide the houses through the foliage behind. When I looked at the colour version on screen, I was distracted by the coloured roofs peeking through the foliage.
Here's my offerings for today - no ruins today, just Northampton's main street. The first is straight out of camera, the second has been cropped to remove a little of the second statue that had crept in one corner!
http://dpnow.com/galleries/data//928/medium/2964677733_e24149d744_b.jpg
http://dpnow.com/galleries/data//928/medium/IMG_0551crop.jpg
Bob Ross
23-10-08, 02:39 AM
Nothing as exciting as yesterday Im afraid, to be honest I did forget and have just taken these of my bike:
Wopped the iso back up on these,1600, I dont think the grain is half as noticeable as it would have been in colour.
I like the bike shots, Ash and the church shot where you used flash is very good. I think one of the reasons for less grain in out of camera B&W is that most cameras create monochrome like doing channel mixing. I recently read the mix was 0.30 Red, 0.59 Green and 0.11 Blue. I'm sure it varies by mfr. & model. Since the blue and red channels get cut back, so does the noise, which tends to reside in those channels.
The one area that I get bothered by is the gray scale translation of the color spectrum, which is why I tend to use an orange filter. It seems to separate the color in the gray scale better, giving better definition of some color transitions.
Here are a few new ones, from yesterday,
Bob
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Interesting bit of info on the b&w there bob, so tip of the day is ' if ya need to shoot high iso, do in cam b&w' I like it:D
Another lovely set of images and I especially like the token, where can I get some of those?*LOL
I dont think Im so young but if you want to call me young lad thats fine with me:D
Did you have anyone looking at you funny when you were taking these?
I often get the feeling that everyone is just watching you when you get a big stonking slr out of a bag in a busy high st and start taking pictures, anyone would think it was a machine gun*LOL
Like the shots keep it up!
Day 5 and Im sorry to say Ill have to break my own rules, Ive been so busy today I have not shot one frame:( but I won't dissapoint you Ill post one from the Abbey yesterday:D
I loved this scene as I was walking around the abbey I just wished there was a couple of people or person sat on the bench, could have been a cracker.
I won't be able to post for the next couple of nights but will still be taking shots and will share them with you Sunday.
So Im hoping you all will keep posting pics each day as I will be looking forward to seeing them soon, and if you have not posted a pic, go on why not, it only takes a couple of mins to upload one, Ide be chuffed to bits if I come back and theres a stack of pics to look at!
http://dpnow.com/galleries/data//500/B_w_Autumn.jpg (http://dpnow.com/galleries/showphoto.php/photo/13912)
Rodbender
23-10-08, 10:09 PM
Well OK, you have twisted my arm. Here's one of our local Abbey
http://dpnow.com/galleries//data//934/tn_B_W.jpg
Bob Ross
23-10-08, 11:03 PM
Interesting bit of info on the b&w there bob, so tip of the day is ' if ya need to shoot high iso, do in cam b&w' I like it:D
Another lovely set of images and I especially like the token, where can I get some of those?*LOL
Hi Ash,
My muse took the day off, so no contributions. That Token has a chance of being authentic, but alas the saloon is out of business long ago.
I once tried to make gritty/grainy pictures out of the camera with my CP5000, the noisiest camera I own. The experiment was a failure, because the noise was in the channels cut by the cameras conversion. I then moved on to the various "add noise" techniques:rolleyes: Of the shots that I posted the "Pixie" is at ISO1600. The others are with the ISO on Auto with the E-3.
On your "big" camera comment, I have noticed people do watch me when I have the E-3 and the actually ignore me after a glance when I use my M8....just an old fart with his old timey camera.....he might even be using film*LOL Maybe my muse will come back if I switch to the M8 for the rest of your challenge??
Bob
Of the shots posted since my last effort, I particularly liked the wooden one from Bob's offerings - excellent contrast and DOF.
Ash - that's a great woodland scene, even though it's in black and white it's very evocative of autumn. Is it me, or is it on a bit of a tilt?
Rod's abbey has plenty of interest, the dramatic clouds behind the church make it for me.
Ash - you asked if people gave me a funny look when I was taking the statues - the answer is definitely yes, although I only had the compact with me. I was after the anvil with children playing, but tried to take it too quickly when the local street hooverer paused to let me take the shot, and cut the kids head off..... shame, so that's one to try again.
So here's the last one from yesterday, of Northampton's Gothic Guildhall, with the modern extension beside. I waited about 5 minutes, but that ruddy van didn't move...
http://dpnow.com/galleries/data//928/medium/2967210007_3e8b0da50b_b.jpg
Bob Ross
23-10-08, 11:19 PM
Ill post one from the Abbey yesterday:D
I loved this scene as I was walking around the abbey I just wished there was a couple of people or person sat on the bench, could have been a cracker.
Hi Ash,
I don't know what is off to the right side of this fram, but I would have shifted to the right to bring the left side of the walk way to the lower left corner of the frame. I agree that people would have helped scale the scene.
Bob
Bob Ross
23-10-08, 11:27 PM
Hi Cas,
That is certainly a moody rendition, it goes good with the architechture. Too bad there weren't some stormy clouds roiling over head.
Bob
Bob Ross
26-10-08, 10:57 PM
To cap my contributions to the challenge off, I considered Ash's comment about large cameras being noticed and got my FX500 out, to see how it does.
It was set auto for everything, so I up the contrast, but forgot to up the sharpening (did that after resizing). Not bad for a pocket camera. Next time I'll put my glasses on for framing.....:rolleyes:
Bob
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1449.BBQ starter
Thanks Rod, a very striking scene of very old and old in the same shot, Im not sure how much you adeared to the brief, but thanks very much for your input.
Ash.
Hi caz and thanks for your input into my little assignment, as to wether an image is on a tilt or not, the eye of the viewer tends to look for something in the picture that resembles something horizontal or vertical to compare the rest of the scene to, most of the picture is on unlevel ground but if you look at the bin and seat, I think they are level and for me gives the whole pic the impression it is correct. However I respect your view and as I don't no which way - left or right- you think the scene is offset feel free to tilt the image a repost so I can see your perspective.
cheers
Ash.
A Good set to finish off with Bob, and thanks for your input.
I have learnt alot the past week and feel in general we can all get bogged down with the vast majority of lenses available, all Im sure exeling in there specific job, but to just have 1 lens on the camera and make do, makes you think about the scene alot more and I think the outcome of the image straight from the camera is better.
The b&w in camera and not altering anything on the computer kinda ties in to the 1 lens thing and thought it was a good challenge for anyone taking part, I myself have got into the habit of thinking I can improve an image if I need to before ive even taken it! Which to me should not be the case and is bad practice.
Im a bit dissapointed there were not more forum regulers posting pics.
I never like good things to end so I hope you can all feel you can post pics to this thread whenever you wish and give a brief discription and hopefully no post processing!
I will be posting pics regularly aslong as the forum will let me, of b&w images with my d200 and my 50mm lens with no tweeks, it won't be everyday but when I can.
If you have followed this thread upto now then thankyou!
cheers
Ash.
Ok, the reason I fell short of my own challenge fri, sat & sun was because I was at blackpool on a short break, the weather was very poor as seen in this shot, and for the second time for me in 1 year the blackpool tower lift was unavailable due to high winds, I was very dissapointed, maybe I should try the summer!
This shot was taken on sat morning before 9am and show's just how rough the sea was, the large white patch is a wave that has just crashed on the concrete sea front defences. Shortly after this photo was taken we all got caught out and had to return to the hotel being drenched!
The only sin ive made in this photo was the change of lens, to my nikon 18-200 vr, but in cam b&w and no tweeking still prevails!
http://dpnow.com/galleries/data//500/Rough_Sea.jpg (http://dpnow.com/galleries/showphoto.php/photo/14058)
We visited the zoo on the sunday and this is one of the best shots which I love.
http://dpnow.com/galleries/data//500/Monkey_Baby.jpg (http://dpnow.com/galleries/showphoto.php/photo/14056)
This last shot is a couple of otters, the otter on the left is obviously the female giving the male a hard time for going to the pub last night and stopping out late*LOL
And the male with his paw ' calm down love, it was only a few beers with the lads discussing angles and lead inn's for the shoot'
http://dpnow.com/galleries/data//500/Otters.jpg (http://dpnow.com/galleries/showphoto.php/photo/14057)
Bob Ross
29-10-08, 03:34 AM
A Good set to finish off with Bob, and thanks for your input.
I have learnt alot the past week and feel in general we can all get bogged down with the vast majority of lenses available, all Im sure exeling in there specific job, but to just have 1 lens on the camera and make do, makes you think about the scene alot more and I think the outcome of the image straight from the camera is better.
The b&w in camera and not altering anything on the computer kinda ties in to the 1 lens thing and thought it was a good challenge for anyone taking part, I myself have got into the habit of thinking I can improve an image if I need to before ive even taken it! Which to me should not be the case and is bad practice.
Im a bit dissapointed there were not more forum regulers posting pics.
I never like good things to end so I hope you can all feel you can post pics to this thread whenever you wish and give a brief discription and hopefully no post processing!
I will be posting pics regularly aslong as the forum will let me, of b&w images with my d200 and my 50mm lens with no tweeks, it won't be everyday but when I can.
If you have followed this thread upto now then thankyou!
cheers
Ash.
Hi Ash,
This has been a good challenge to what should be established reflexes. A lot of learning for me was in the images not posted here:o Coupled with the basic challenge, I took looking for "good light" that suited the way I had set the camera up as a second challenge. That might explain some of the mundane subject matter in my samples. One of the things that I found was that measuring the exposure range of a scene and setting the contrast accordingly is still part of proper metering. Using on camera & lens helps the learning process, otherwise you learn how the cameras differ. Lots of parallels to the olden days of film.
I keep my B&W settings in a user memory, so I'll contribute from time to time.
Bob
Rodbender
29-10-08, 11:59 AM
Thanks Rod, a very striking scene of very old and old in the same shot, Im not sure how much you adeared to the brief, but thanks very much for your input.
Ash.
OK I'll own up to a little crop + increased contrast. I use in-camera B&W for all my monochrome images. Yes I have read that converting from colour gives you more control etc. etc. but I only have Picasa and what can be achieved with that is no better than in-camera B&W. As for the one lens bit of your brief, My Panasonic FZ5 (£49 off ebay) only has one fixed lens.:D
Stephen
29-10-08, 05:31 PM
Im a bit dissapointed there were not more forum regulers posting pics.
I never like good things to end so I hope you can all feel you can post pics to this thread whenever you wish and give a brief discription and hopefully no post processing!
cheers
Ash.
I'm afraid I hold my hands up and admit I never contributed to this thread. Why, well I'm afraid I couldn't agree from the outset with the criteria and even the principle of thread
You say in your first post
I love b&w and and grainyness and ruffness of old style photography, so Im going to fit my 50mm lens on my d200, set it to b&w only and crank up the iso, and see what happenshttp://dpnow.com/forum2/../i/smileys/ohwell.gif
You then go on to say later about it all being done in camera and without Photoshop
I like B/W as much as you Ash, but I always shoot in Raw, and prefer to process my own shots, not let the camera decide. If I feel an image would work in mono then I will process it as such. If I want a gritty grainy feel, I can add that. I see this as all part of the creative process.
It just seems to me that you are wanting to emulate the B/W images you see created in the days when film was king, and ISO 1600 gave really gritty results. I've been there and done that and I can tell you that with todays modern dSLRs, even set to 1600, you can't achieve anywhere near the same result as you could with film. Cranking up the ISO and shooting in B/W on your D200 is not going to achieve what you are after.
However, shoot away without those limitations, and then create the effect you are after in the software, seems much better way IMHO.
I don't deny there are some lovely images in this thread, but most are not achieving what you really set out to do I feel. Even Bob Ross is in some ways bending the rules by making in camera adjustments, over and above aperture and shutter speed, something that couldn't be done with a film camera. Letting the camera decide on the result you show is no way as good as creating the end result in a Raw processor like Lightroom or in Photoshop (or similar).
Without going on anymore then, whilst your challenge was a good idea in so far as you wanted to recreate the look of 'old school' images, for me I didn't really agree with your criteria for what you were trying to achieve, so I felt I could not contribute.
Bob Ross
29-10-08, 06:18 PM
I'm afraid I hold my hands up and admit I never contributed to this thread. Why, well I'm afraid I couldn't agree from the outset with the criteria and even the principle of thread
You say in your first post
You then go on to say later about it all being done in camera and without Photoshop
I like B/W as much as you Ash, but I always shoot in Raw, and prefer to process my own shots, not let the camera decide. If I feel an image would work in mono then I will process it as such. If I want a gritty grainy feel, I can add that. I see this as all part of the creative process.
It just seems to me that you are wanting to emulate the B/W images you see created in the days when film was king, and ISO 1600 gave really gritty results. I've been there and done that and I can tell you that with todays modern dSLRs, even set to 1600, you can't achieve anywhere near the same result as you could with film. Cranking up the ISO and shooting in B/W on your D200 is not going to achieve what you are after.
However, shoot away without those limitations, and then create the effect you are after in the software, seems much better way IMHO.
I don't deny there are some lovely images in this thread, but most are not achieving what you really set out to do I feel. Even Bob Ross is in some ways bending the rules by making in camera adjustments, over and above aperture and shutter speed, something that couldn't be done with a film camera. Letting the camera decide on the result you show is no way as good as creating the end result in a Raw processor like Lightroom or in Photoshop (or similar).
Without going on anymore then, whilst your challenge was a good idea in so far as you wanted to recreate the look of 'old school' images, for me I didn't really agree with your criteria for what you were trying to achieve, so I felt I could not contribute.
Hi Stephen,
When we shot film and developed it, we had to make some choices before the actaual exposure and it honed some skills, that today don't have to be used, or do they? We chose the film and were stuck with it. My configuring the camera is to me "choosing the film" and choosing "in camera JPEG" is choosing the developer/time/temperature. Now, film was a limited medium and those that bent it were those that shot sheet film and developed each exposure uniquely and then made prints with lots of manipulations. Since the picture wasn't seen until it was "too late", skills were needed in pre-visualization.
I took Ash's challenge as a way to revisit that pre-exposure discipline. It isn't a case of letting the camera decide, but one of making the photographer decide before the exposure. Digital moves some of the darkroom tasks to the camera like choice of contrast. We used to do that with paper grades, but where is the paper nowadays?
Learning pre-exposure skills is part of the craft and, to me, is very useful when it comes to PPing. I am a compulsive post processor in real life. Ash's challenge is like going to a PPA meeting*LOL
In my years with rangefinders, learning the lenses was important. To know what the capture field was before you brought the camera to eye, meant that the camera didn't interfere with "seeing". That skill has dissapeared with the zoom & live view generation. So, the question is whether pre-exposure skills are still valuable or should we just say, " I shoot RAW only, who cares"?
Bob
Rodbender
30-10-08, 04:44 PM
Hi Stephen,
When we shot film and developed it, we had to make some choices before the actaual exposure and it honed some skills, that today don't have to be used, or do they? We chose the film and were stuck with it. My configuring the camera is to me "choosing the film" and choosing "in camera JPEG" is choosing the developer/time/temperature. Now, film was a limited medium and those that bent it were those that shot sheet film and developed each exposure uniquely and then made prints with lots of manipulations. Since the picture wasn't seen until it was "too late", skills were needed in pre-visualization.
I took Ash's challenge as a way to revisit that pre-exposure discipline. It isn't a case of letting the camera decide, but one of making the photographer decide before the exposure. Digital moves some of the darkroom tasks to the camera like choice of contrast. We used to do that with paper grades, but where is the paper nowadays?
Learning pre-exposure skills is part of the craft and, to me, is very useful when it comes to PPing. I am a compulsive post processor in real life. Ash's challenge is like going to a PPA meeting*LOL
In my years with rangefinders, learning the lenses was important. To know what the capture field was before you brought the camera to eye, meant that the camera didn't interfere with "seeing". That skill has dissapeared with the zoom & live view generation. So, the question is whether pre-exposure skills are still valuable or should we just say, " I shoot RAW only, who cares"?
Bob
You have raised some good points there Bob, but only us older photographers will appreciate them. It's so long ago that I used film that I had almost forgoten it. Things have certainly changed now that digital has arrived. Like you say having chosen your film you were stuck with it unless you had the luxury of interchangeable backs. Even then the choices were some what limited. We did, more or less, do the same in the darkroom as some do today on their computers. Manipulating the end result etc. How much easier it all seems now with software like photoshop. I gave up photography for a number of years and have only in the last few years come back to it. Video was my main interest for quite some time, now I've got bored with that. Coming back into digital photography has been quite refreshing. Not sure if we should be comparing digital with film. I'm treating digital as a whole new hobby.
Bob Ross
30-10-08, 09:43 PM
Hi Rod,
I agree that the "film vr digital" subject is a subjective trap, though there are some areas like exposure metering, that are the same and there are certain image qualities from film that haven't quite made the medium transition. This last point can sometimes be meat for post processing. One area that I mentioned was the color/gray scale conversion (JPEG) and I have a shot not posted from the FX500 where all the greens just run into each other and definition goes away. Another area that I have been playing with in color is the way digital doesn't seem to build up the color density the way that slide film did and generic global saturation tools just don't quite mimic it properly. Subtle stuff, known to old timers, but it can make a difference.
Bob
Sorry if my title mislead you Stephen, maybe I should have called it ' Photography with a digital camera with 1 lens and set on in camera b&w and no post processing'
Earlier in the thread you did give the impression you where going to share some pictures, to which I replied 'by all means post some shots', I would have been very happy to see some of your pictures, as I always love looking at your work.
Its unfortunate you felt you could not contribute.
This was in no way a serious scientific experiment to compare old film with digital, which you are trying to make out it was, it was a bit of fun to see what results could be obtained from one lens, in camera b&w and no post processing, and I invited forum members to take part, if you could not manage that criteria to take some shots then thats fine.
Ive read your response over, and feel on the whole you have seen it as a much more serious experiment than it actually was, its certainly something ive enjoyed doing, and Im glad that other forum members joined in and understood where I was coming from.
cheers
Ash.