Printing problems!

[Garry]

Hi guy's

I, like thousands of others, am having colour management problems.

What I see on my monitor, is not what I get in print.
I have read numerous threads in various forums including here about this problem. I have found a way of sorting the problem for myself. But it is a bit hit and miss, and I would rather have something a little more exact.

I have been advised that the Colormunki Photo is very good, in that it not only profiles the monitor, but that it profiles your printer in line with the monitor.

These are not cheap. But would be worth every penny, if they work.

Has anyone here used or have experience with the Colormunki Photo, Please?

[rogleale]

Hi Garry,
What is the problem exactly - colour or brightness?

Roger

[Garry]

Hi Roger

Most definitely, the problem is brightness.
I can duplicate the brightness if i increase brightness by 36 in photoshop.

But this depends on the background of the image. +36 if the background is dark ( Trees or similar )
+30 if the background is bright ( Sky or siilar )

But it isn't an exact science as you can see, and was hoping that this calibrator might help.

I have tried to get info from the printer manufacturer, with out much sucess.

I use sRGB all the way through, as my camera is sRGB. I process and save in sRGB and the printer settings are sRGB.

I only use genuine manufacturers paper and ink.

If I start to add Gamma, it does increase the brightness, to a degree, but not enough, and the colour starts to change with this.

[mike_j]

Matching brightness of monitor and print is a common problem. Have a look at this article which suggests using a camera to set a standard screen brightness.


http://www.hermitage-ps.co.uk/monitor_luminance.htm


I find though that if the monitor brightness is right for printing the screen looks too dim for normal use.

[rogleale]

Hi Mike,
A good read, but he is wrong to assume that the recommended brightness of 120 cd/m² is always correct. I had to reduce the brightness of my monitor, an LG Flatron W2242T, to 90 to get the prints to match the screen image. I had to reduce the brightness of my daughter's Samtron 94V to 95 to get the match.
I don't know if the Color Munki provides an adjustment for this but the screen controls should.
Roger

[Garry]

I very much apreciate your help with this problem, Roger and Mike

Maybe I am being naive. But if it does what it is meant to. That is profile the colours in the printer, to match the colours on the screen. I would have thought they would have to be the same brightness, or they wouldnt be the same colour, surely!

Re the link on Luminance!

Sorry! I must be a bit daft. I cant get my head around that!

It says that usually monitor screens are too bright, and we usually have to darken our photos, which results in dark prints.

Fine! I understand that.

Then it gives you a method of testing your screens luminance, which I tried.

It gives an example of your camera showing a shutter speed of 1/60th. Funnily enough. That is exactly the result I got.

It then advises that you adjust the brightness, on the screen, till you achieve a shutter speed of 1/100 - 1/125

I must be missing something here. To increase the shutter speed. You have to turn the brightness of the screen up!

Is this not the opposite of what it was saying at the start?

[mike_j]

It gives an example of your camera showing a shutter speed of 1/60th. Funnily enough. That is exactly the result I got.

It then advises that you adjust the brightness, on the screen, till you achieve a shutter speed of 1/100 - 1/125

I must be missing something here. To increase the shutter speed. You have to turn the brightness of the screen up!

Is this not the opposite of what it was saying at the start?

I think the 1/60th is just an example to show how it works, he is suggesting that standard settings may give readings of 1/200th or so.

I do agree with Roger that the recommended brightness of 120 cd/m² seems too bright, mine is set at about 80 using the camera method.

What test photo do you use - this seems to be the most popular one

http://www.scienceandart.org/photoshop2/PDI%20TargetA4Ltr.jpg

[Patrick]

Hi guy's

I, like thousands of others, am having colour management problems.

What I see on my monitor, is not what I get in print.
I have read numerous threads in various forums including here about this problem. I have found a way of sorting the problem for myself. But it is a bit hit and miss, and I would rather have something a little more exact.

I have been advised that the Colormunki Photo is very good, in that it not only profiles the monitor, but that it profiles your printer in line with the monitor.

These are not cheap. But would be worth every penny, if they work.

Has anyone here used or have experience with the Colormunki Photo, Please?

I can confirm how good the Colormunki is. The Photo club where I am a member has one to lend to members for a small fee.
I have profiled my iMac, and made print profiles for my Epson 2880 very successfully. I had a Spyder Pro monitor & print profiling kit also very good but the Colormunki I found better and easier to use.

One of the problems many is having the setting of the screen monitor too bright (factory settings). Tone it down, it may seem flat and lifeless at first but very quickly you adjust and your printing may improve even without profiling.

I your finances can stand it go for the Colormunki.

Patrick

[Garry]

Hi Patrick

Thank you so much for this info. This is what I was hoping for.

So it does look as though this might be the answer to my dark prints!

Didn't know that Spyder did a monitor/printer calibrator!

Looks like the bank is going to get a hammering!

[Patrick]

Hi Roger


I use sRGB all the way through, as my camera is sRGB. I process and save in sRGB and the printer settings are sRGB.

I only use genuine manufacturers paper and ink.



I would suggest you change the settings on your camera to RGB rather than sRGB this is for web purposes and has a narrower color gamut. RGB has a wider color gamut. The RGB can always be changed to sRGB for publishing to the web

It shouldn't make any difference to quality using third party papers or third party inks, providing profiles are made. Although in the case of ink its probably best to use the genuine ones if you are not sure of the quality of third party inks, avoid at all cost cheap third party inks.

If you are using genuine ink & paper the profiles provided by the print manufacturer should give satisfactory results, you don't mention the make of printer. If you have to change you monitor to print, or adjust your printer away from the correct profile for the paper used then you definitely need to profile monitor and printer. I have a profile for each type of paper I use usualy Permajet, Royal, Permajet Distinction or for art paper Permajet Museum Classic. All top quality papers and expensive.
I have spent many hours, paper and ink on printing over the years and one thing has become clear CONSISTENCY, and the best possible quality of paper with good profiles. Manufacturers such as the aforementioned Permajet, and others like Fotospeed will make custom profiles free for their own papers, you simply download the target file and print according to instruction and post it back to them, they email the profile.
A thought comes to mind, best prints are obtained by setting up the printer the best way. I use as stated an Epson I always set manage by Photoshop, select my chosen profile and switch OFF colour management. There is a very good reason for this if colour management is not switched off any print profiles selected (even the generic ones supplied with the printer) may clash with management settings and give incorrect and inconsistent results.

Patrick

[Patrick]

Hi Patrick

Thank you so much for this info. This is what I was hoping for.

So it does look as though this might be the answer to my dark prints!

Didn't know that Spyder did a monitor/printer calibrator!

Looks like the bank is going to get a hammering!

The Spyder Kit consists of two units, the Spyder we all know for the monitor and another for the prints, as opposed to the one unit approach used by Colormonki.

[Garry]

Thanks for this, Patrick

A lot there for me to take in!

Point taken on sRGB. Will adjust that!

I am using an HP printer that is hard wired into my PC. But wireless for the rest of the family. It probably isn't the photographers choice of printer, but I had to take the families needs into account.
I Have been using HP everyday glossy, as this is already profiled into the printer.
I cant remember is I turned off colour management or not. I will try that tomorrow.
I have also been advised to use Permajet by another photographer. Will give that a try.

The way that I have been getting over the problem till now is.

Process the photo as normal. Then make a copy and bring the brightness right up. Then save the copy and print from that.
Not very satisfactory, and not very precise.

Again. Thanks. Will try out your suggestions tomorrow. Have already reduced the brightness on my monitor from 90 to 70. Doesn't look much different to be honest.
Or I have just got used to it fast!

[Patrick]

Thanks for this, Patrick

A lot there for me to take in!

Point taken on sRGB. Will adjust that!

I am using an HP printer that is hard wired into my PC. But wireless for the rest of the family. It probably isn't the photographers choice of printer, but I had to take the families needs into account.
I Have been using HP everyday glossy, as this is already profiled into the printer.
I cant remember is I turned off colour management or not. I will try that tomorrow.
I have also been advised to use Permajet by another photographer. Will give that a try.

The way that I have been getting over the problem till now is.

Process the photo as normal. Then make a copy and bring the brightness right up. Then save the copy and print from that.
Not very satisfactory, and not very precise.

Again. Thanks. Will try out your suggestions tomorrow. Have already reduced the brightness on my monitor from 90 to 70. Doesn't look much different to be honest.
Or I have just got used to it fast!

As a work round for the time being, only if you are using an edit program with layers, Photoshop, PS Elements, Paintshop Pro, there are others around.
Adjust your image the way you want it, then add a layer to compensate for your printing. Save the layer and add it to other images when printing, worked for me some years ago when I was having trouble, or simply make a note of the compensation that works and apply it every time you print, but undo before saving otherwise those images won't print correctly when you sort things out.

Patrick

[rogleale]

Hi Garry,
My advice would be don't spend any money yet on Color Munki or whatever but get the brightness problem solved first. Colour management is a whole new field waiting to confuse you when you have the brightness correct.
Are you sure that your printer is using the right profile? In the HP driver can you switch colour management off?
If you can stop the printer managing colour, do so and leave it to PS. In the print dialogue of PS under 'Color Management' select 'Document' then set 'PS manages colors' and make sure that 'Printer manages colors' is de-selected.
Select an image to test the settings and in PS select >Edit > Convert to profile > sRGB and start the printing process.
If you have time let us know the result.

Roger

[mike_j]

Garry,

I have a spare Spyder 2 if you are interested. Send me a pm if you are interested - I think they fetch about £30 on ebay. Does the job of colour matching efficiently but won't solve brightness problems.

I don't use it because I run with twin screens and the graphics card can only handle one custom profile so I keep getting error messages. Anyway my main screen, a Dell Ultrasharp is very accurate.

[Patrick]

Garry,

I have a spare Spyder 2 if you are interested. Send me a pm if you are interested - I think they fetch about £30 on ebay. Does the job of colour matching efficiently but won't solve brightness problems.

I don't use it because I run with twin screens and the graphics card can only handle one custom profile so I keep getting error messages. Anyway my main screen, a Dell Ultrasharp is very accurate.

I used to use a two screen set up on a Dell machine before buying the iMac and I was able to profile both screens, if the graphics card can support two screens then you should be able to profile both. It may depend on the OS system. Unfortunately I can't remember the exact process, but it was I recollect quit simple to do.

Patrick

[rogleale]

Hi Garry.
Just another thought on your screen brightness problem. If you go to E Photozine HERE (http://www.ephotozine.com/) at the bottom of the page is a greyscale bar chart which is a big help in setting up screen brightness and contrast. Adjust these two until you can see sixteen different shades.
If your colour calibration is off you may find that this greyscale is tinted but you should still be able to see 16 tints.

Roger

[Garry]

Thanks guy's for your help here.

I have a little work I have to do tonight. But will be trying your suggestions out over the next few days, and will get back to you all, on this.

Oh yes! I found that I can, and have now, turned of the printer colour management.

I have the option to use printer colour management. Adobe RGB. Or no colour management.

[Patrick]

Thanks guy's for your help here.

I have a little work I have to do tonight. But will be trying your suggestions out over the next few days, and will get back to you all, on this.

Oh yes! I found that I can, and have now, turned of the printer colour management.

I have the option to use printer colour management. Adobe RGB. Or no colour management.

Garry that might be your problem you do not use Adobe RGB as a print profile, that is a colour space profile not a print profile, they are not the same.
The computer has many profiles, each with its own job, colour space profiles, monitor profiles, printing profiles and a good few others all there to do one job, but in conjunction with all the others, just like a team. Give the wrong job to the wrong profile and you have problems.
For printing there will have been print profiles installed when you installed the print driver, they can be self descripted such as epson gloss, epson matt, HP or Canon will have there own descriptions, but they will be equally descriptive. I agree it's best to turn off colour management particularly using custom profiles.
If you have a printer with three black inks for b/w then you use printer manages prints when printing b/w.
Sad to say it isn't just a question of pressing the print button as the manufacturers make us believe.
It can be when everything is set up properly.

Patrick